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Scousette1
Post  Post subject: Ex-communication, re-dunking & after......  |  Posted: Sat Apr 15, 2017 10:41 am
Nursery

Joined: Thu Jun 26, 2014 4:14 pm
Posts: 21

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After a 5 year stint on the ex-communication naughty step for my friend, it's looking like whoever's in charge is satisfied that enough's enough and a 'proper' repentant state's been achieved so it's off to the tub in the white kit for the re-dunk. (The morg are probably itching to get their hands on all that lovely tithing cash again but that's a totally separate issue......). He'd be more than happy for the current status quo to continue - trips to the pub, turning up to church on a Sunday if he felt like it, generally slacking off etc. - but it's becoming more difficult to fend them off.

I understand that after being ex'd, the priesthood thingie's taken away from you, you don't have to waste time on callings & you're not regarded as sealed to your spouse and kids so what's actually given back to you if/when you do get re-baptised and at what stage do you get it? What's the process likely to have been up to now in terms of surveillance and monitoring? Who decides & what criteria would they apply to deem you ready to be dipped? Do they do the dipping as a 'one off' in these circs & make a big deal of it or is it just seen as routine & you get done along with anyone else who needs it? Do they keep an extra special eye on you afterwards in case you slip back into naughty ways? Lots of questions, curious as to what's involved :?


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Melanie
Post  Post subject: Re: Ex-communication, re-dunking & after......  |  Posted: Sat Apr 15, 2017 12:20 pm
myself

Joined: Sat Jun 22, 2013 4:34 pm
Posts: 1693
Location: England

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HI!
So is this your friend you've mentioned before on here, I guess so :)

Restoration of all blessings is a separate ordinance that is performed a while after re-baptism, so at his re-baptism your friend will not hold the priesthood straight away. The re-baptism is a declaration of his intent to follow Christ.

_________________
Why leave? http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=pl ... 989OOSOycw
How to heal? http://media.blubrry.com/mormonexpressi ... ion225.mp3


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Scousette1
Post  Post subject: Re: Ex-communication, re-dunking & after......  |  Posted: Sat Apr 15, 2017 4:59 pm
Nursery

Joined: Thu Jun 26, 2014 4:14 pm
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Hi & thanks Melanie x

What sort of timescale would the next ordinance involve? Is it a fixed period or does it involve a sort of probationary period?


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Melanie
Post  Post subject: Re: Ex-communication, re-dunking & after......  |  Posted: Sun Apr 16, 2017 8:24 am
myself

Joined: Sat Jun 22, 2013 4:34 pm
Posts: 1693
Location: England

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Hi!
Restoration of blessings usually happens at least a year after re-baptism. You mention family sealings so I am assuming your friend was endowed. After the restoration of blessings, his baptism date will be that of his first baptism.

After the rebaptism of a person who has not been endowed in the temple, his or her membership record shows the original baptism date, with no reference to the excommunication. A man who previously held the priesthood but was not endowed should generally be ordained to his former priesthood office. Again, his membership record will show his original ordination date, with no reference to excommunication.

A person who was endowed in the temple before being excommunicated may regain priesthood and/or temple blessings only through the ordinance of restoration of blessings. This is a special ordinance performed by a General Authority as directed by the First Presidency. Afterwards, a new membership record is created, showing the original dates of baptism, endowment, sealing, and (if applicable) priesthood ordinations—with no reference to excommunication.

The ward/ branch communicates with the Stake and the Stake with the church admin/ First Presidency Office, so lots of procedures.

As long as your friend lives true to his baptismal promises, as interpreted by the standards of the church, then all will be well. It's not really probation, its just living as he has stated he will do and taking it steady before he is given more accountability with the restoration of blessings, that brings with that more spiritual responsibility. It is a kindness.

It will all depend upon his sincerity of heart. Really there is no need to be re-baptised just to stop people pestering him. Resignation stops people pestering too. He is heading for heartbreak if he is re-baptised for the wrong reasons.

_________________
Why leave? http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=pl ... 989OOSOycw
How to heal? http://media.blubrry.com/mormonexpressi ... ion225.mp3


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Scousette1
Post  Post subject: Re: Ex-communication, re-dunking & after......  |  Posted: Sun Apr 16, 2017 5:02 pm
Nursery

Joined: Thu Jun 26, 2014 4:14 pm
Posts: 21

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Thanks for that very helpful response Melanie. Re-baptised for the wrong reasons? It's looking that way due to family pressure. Son - the bishop; wife - Stake Primary President; eldest daughter - Relief Soc President; daughter-in -law - counsellor to the Relief Soc. Pres. He's still the kind, hard working individual with a strong personal faith, happy to turn up most Sundays at the meeting house to spend time with the 3 (adult) kids & the 9 grandchildren & quite relaxed with his current relationship with the church. They're by far the biggest mob in their congregation & I'm guessing it somewhat takes the shine off the status a bit with Grandad not toeing the dynastic line. All to do with appearances and not a lot of genuine spirituality involved.


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Melanie
Post  Post subject: Re: Ex-communication, re-dunking & after......  |  Posted: Mon Apr 17, 2017 4:41 am
myself

Joined: Sat Jun 22, 2013 4:34 pm
Posts: 1693
Location: England

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I'd say ''strong personal faith'' will be your key words there.

That's the important bit. Unity is important. And his family and he himself will want to be together in the eternities, which will be a motivating force. I reckon it'll be fine.

_________________
Why leave? http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=pl ... 989OOSOycw
How to heal? http://media.blubrry.com/mormonexpressi ... ion225.mp3


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productofchoice
Post  Post subject: Re: Ex-communication, re-dunking & after......  |  Posted: Mon Apr 17, 2017 7:34 am
God

Joined: Wed Apr 06, 2011 12:49 pm
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Location: NC

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If Mormonism had the power to save,
It would not save him
Not the way he is living.

If he isn't willing to change and meet their criteria then he is really doing this for other reasons. Likely to save his family relationships in this life because he likely lost family and friends over this.

They aren't likely to be private detectives following him to catch him in the very act.
But they will have lots of interviews and he is going to have to lie to maintain his lifestyle and still hold to his second chance ... and lie well.

So I wonder, does he really believe Mormonism and just believe that he's a lost cause? Does he go along just to placate the family and associate with friends? If he does, there is likely a great deal of self condemnation and shame and loathing and that's got to affect his relationships and his peace.

And as a divorced LDS man, I found that even though I was active there were just some callings that I wasn't going to get, even though I went every week and even though I brought my kids and even though I went to the temple. I was "branded" in a way and while they might clean that piece of paper they will keep a mental record of his sin and he won't ever really regain that same full standing in their eyes. There are just some callings/jobs that he won't be trusted to have because they won't want him in a position where he might corrupt their wives or daughters, etc.

Peace

_________________
I resigned from the Church of THE Jesus Christ of the Latter Day Saints (Feb 2011)

"For nothing is secret, that shall not be made manifest; neither any thing hid, that shall not be known and come abroad." - Luke 8:17


Last edited by productofchoice on Mon Apr 17, 2017 9:11 am, edited 1 time in total.


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joseph's myth
Post  Post subject: Ex-communication, re-dunking & after......  |  Posted: Mon Apr 17, 2017 8:55 am
God of Poly-Folly

Joined: Wed Mar 12, 2008 2:29 pm
Posts: 5422

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productofchoice wrote:
I Mormonism had the power to save,
It would not save him
Not the way he is living.

If he isn't willing to change and meet their criteria then he is really doing this for other reasons. Likely to save his family relationships in this life because he likely lost family and friends over this.

They aren't likely to be private detectives following him to catch him in the very act.
But they will have lots of interviews and he is going to have to lie to maintain his lifestyle and still hold to his second chance ... and lie well.

So I wonder, does he really believe Mormonism and just believe that he's a lost cause? Does he go along just to placate the family and associate with friends? If he does, there is likely a great deal of self condemnation and shame and loathing and that's got to affect his relationships and his peace.

And as a divorced LDS man, I found that even though I was active there were just some callings that I wasn't going to get, even though I went every week and even though I brought my kids and even though I went to the temple. I was "branded" in a way and while they might clean that piece of paper they will keep a mental record of his sin and he won't ever really regain that same full standing in their eyes. There are just some callings/jobs that he won't be trusted to have because they won't want him in a position where he might corrupt their wives or daughters, etc.

Peace


Peeps staring at one another in the LDS sanctuary are there for a mingled variety of reasons, maybe there is an inheritance waiting for the obedient Mormon. Even if in reality, not that obedient. Perhaps the social structure has not yet fully collapsed in the ward or stake attended. There is always the possibility that good internet and smartphone service may not have reached outlying areas or countries of undeveloped regions.

Any way you care to look at it though, the cows are coming home.

And Man-O-Man, are the kids gonna be pissed!

_________________
God of Poly-Folly Folly

{If you believe in things that you don't understand, then you suffer ~Stevie Wonder}
.................. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ekkkD8HU944
........................ http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ekkkD8HU944
.................. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ekkkD8HU944


God of Poly-Folly Folly


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joseph's myth
Post  Post subject: Ex-communication, re-dunking & after......  |  Posted: Mon Apr 17, 2017 9:53 am
God of Poly-Folly

Joined: Wed Mar 12, 2008 2:29 pm
Posts: 5422

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Here's the really really sobering thought on reality. Sometimes something terribly awful drives persons to try and maintain public veneers of power and affluent characteristics while at the same time concealing horrible and ongoing secrets. (Remember the Brown's singing family) There is no coming back into Mormonism, no place inside of the LDS religion.

http://m.huffpost.com/us/entry/us_58f0f ... 2ff860352e

This former LDS bishop is dead to Mormonism. The rag-picker who will receive him, and remove all of those fear, guilt and shame drivers that gained a hold on what is now a shell of a man this guy once was is the real Jesus.

Not Mormonism, not the Latter-day Saints, not anybody or anything else. Please pray for the chap.

_________________
God of Poly-Folly Folly

{If you believe in things that you don't understand, then you suffer ~Stevie Wonder}
.................. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ekkkD8HU944
........................ http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ekkkD8HU944
.................. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ekkkD8HU944


God of Poly-Folly Folly


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