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Post  Post subject: Where are we in the Steam if Time?  |  Posted: Mon Jan 04, 2016 3:02 pm

Joined: Sun Jan 03, 2016 10:25 pm
Posts: 4

I just introduced myself yesterday as an ex Jehovah's Witness. I do not bash atheists. If that is what one chooses after a life dedicated to a lie, I understand. I can say somethings about that topic in itself, when I first left Jehovah's Witnesses, but maybe another time. One thing Mormons and the Watchtower have in common, is that we believed that our organization was God's. It was the absolute truth. I was so indoctrinated, that things went dark overnight. Even though 45 years old, I cried like a baby at times. Where would I go? What is my purpose in life? Where are we in the stream of time? Getting the answer to that last question, is what saved my life. The problem with both these organizations, is that they feel the "Great Apostasy" has now passed and they are the restored truth. So now the question is, "who has truth?" You quickly find out that no one has absolute truth. That is sometimes where things stop, and all doubts begin to come in and you stop believing anything faith based. I know. I have been there. But the Bible to a witness, is like the book of Mormon to a Mormon. You read it day and night. You are so familiar with it, that no one can say that it says something that it doesn't. We can draw our own conclusions that the Great Apostasy has not ended, and thus we are still experiencing it. But does the Bible indicate that? The Watchtower always used the nation of Israel and the early Christians in the NT as a basis for showing how it should be today. Saying that we need to have elders/deacons and perfectly organized congregations. And that the apostles were in charge, and thus someone must be in charge today. This thinking is not actually based in the Bible at all. The early church in the Bible had visible signs and the 12 apostles to set up the church. We do not have that today. But the Great Apostasy occurred shortly after the last apostle (John) died. When would it end?
The answer is found here: Matthew: 13. 36. Then Jesus sent the multitudes away, and went into the house. His disciples came to him, saying, "Explain to us the parable of the darnel weeds of the field." 37. He answered them, "He who sows the good seed is the Son of Man, 38. the field is the world; and the good seed, these are the children of the Kingdom; and the darnel weeds are the children of the evil one. 39. The enemy who sowed them is the devil. The harvest is the end of the age, and the reapers are angels. 40. As therefore the darnel weeds are gathered up and burned with fire; so will it be at the end of this age. 41. The Son of Man will send out his angels, and they will gather out of his Kingdom all things that cause stumbling, and those who do iniquity, 42. and will cast them into the furnace of fire. There will be weeping and the gnashing of teeth." Jesus spoke Matthew: 13. 28. "He said to them, 'An enemy has done this.' "The servants asked him, 'Do you want us to go and gather them up?' 29. "But he said, 'No, lest perhaps while you gather up the darnel weeds, you root up the wheat with them. 30. Let both grow together until the harvest, and in the harvest time I will tell the reapers, "First, gather up the darnel weeds, and bind them in bundles to burn them; but gather the wheat into my barn." So the "wheat and the weeds would grow together and it would be difficult to identify them. But at the END OF THE AGE, not at the present, the separation is accomplished, and it is not done by men. So that is what saved me both spiritually and mentally. Also too, John 17:3 was a scripture that the Watchtower quoted often. Jesus said coming to know God and his Son means everlasting life. It is not about understanding everything. We may not understand EVERY scripture in the Bible, but without Watchtower glasses on, you find that the Bible is not hieroglyphics that only a few men in charge understand. Rather, it is quite simple as a whole. The Bible has become a very personal message for ME. No man will ever tell me what to do or think ever again.

Post  Post subject: Re: Where are we in the Steam if Time?  |  Posted: Tue Jan 05, 2016 10:53 am
God of Mythbusters

Joined: Sat Feb 28, 2009 8:30 am
Posts: 4805
Location: Kolobian Lowlands

What if this "Great Apostasy" never occurred, as claimed VXJ. So what if John died, he was mortal after all, just like the rest of us here. If it did occur as claimed, how did early Christianity manage to continue to this day? Ask yourself that. It didn't die out as was claimed, or it wouldn't be here in its many different forms this very day, would it?

"When authority masquerades as a power, a simple question will unmask it."

"Just because you think, feel, or believe something is true, doesn't make it true!"

"The doubt of your faith, is not God testing you, but truth trying to emerge and free you."

Post  Post subject: Re: Where are we in the Steam if Time?  |  Posted: Tue Jan 05, 2016 11:13 am

Joined: Wed Apr 06, 2011 12:49 pm
Posts: 2802
Location: NC


I would agree that we are in that "growing together" time.

WRT the all mighty organization, since leaving LDS I've come to see Jesus as usually fighting against the organization and the LDS trying to rebuild their version of Pharisees. These (all?) religious structures introduce barriers between the believer and God. When Jesus died the Veil of the temple was torn and later the rest of the temple was destroyed too. The Spirit was sent out and is the comforter, teacher and friend that Jesus promised. Believers have direct contact and interaction with the sprit and don't need another to stand in their place. We each have our own individual relationship.

WRT Restorations ... I can't speak for JW but Mormons sloppily restored something from the wrong side of the cross. They restored a pre-cross organization and not the post cross organization/belief. For this reasons Mormons ignore much of the epistles in the NT. The implication is that they undo much of what was done at the cross and insert their own traditions, rituals and requirements.


I resigned from the Church of THE Jesus Christ of the Latter Day Saints (Feb 2011)

"For nothing is secret, that shall not be made manifest; neither any thing hid, that shall not be known and come abroad." - Luke 8:17

Post  Post subject: Re: Where are we in the Steam if Time?  |  Posted: Tue Jan 05, 2016 5:55 pm
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Joined: Thu Mar 13, 2008 12:23 am
Posts: 7887
Location: D&C 121:39

I've had feelings just about exactly like yours, VXJ.
Having seen "The Church" not just as representing God, but actually as God himself, in a way.
So when some )#(U Bishop said a certain thing that he shouldn't have, I thought that was God cursing me to outer darkness for all eternity. After a few years, like you I also realized that there is no "absolute truth" in the religious sense to worry about, at least none that curses or destroys or requires you to believe without evidence. If God exists, he can't be just "Love." He has to be "Patience", too. And let us lead our lives as best we can, taking responsibility for ourselves, not using a church as an excuse for egotism and arrogance.

Sure, we all need hope, and inspiration, and encouragement. I can find that now in many books, from New Testament and C.S. Lewis, to Vardis Fisher (an atheist!) and Hindu scriptures. And in talking with certain, special people in my life.

"Prove it!" - Tarquinius Septem

"Everyone has to find his own path." - Ip-Man

joseph's myth
Post  Post subject: Where are we in the Stream if Time?  |  Posted: Thu Jan 07, 2016 3:26 am
God of Poly-Folly

Joined: Wed Mar 12, 2008 2:29 pm
Posts: 5493

It's not 'steam', It's where we are in the stream of these times. And it is precious, indeed very very precious.

I've enjoyed watching the completely astounding inundation of the LDS brainwash consuming the Ammon Bundy party, during this quasi Mormon conflict and standoff in Oregon now often referred to as the, "The Captain Moroni", occupation. ... tials.html

It doesn't matter how long we patiently choose to try and work on our individual brainwashing, the antidote to our suffering remains there, waiting for us to maybe catch-up to it.

God of Poly-Folly Folly

{If you believe in things that you don't understand, then you suffer ~Stevie Wonder}

God of Poly-Folly Folly

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