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joseph's myth
Post  Post subject: Atheist Post Mormon Moderator  |  Posted: Thu May 22, 2014 6:21 am
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Since atheism is a choice, maybe since the beginning of time, it has remained impossible to openly prove that there is no God.

Atheists largely follow a set of prescribed beliefs, one popular belief being the outright lie that there is no belief systems for atheism.

All choices regardless of where the belief is rooted require faith.

Faith could be a component of this, the human condition.

Is an unexamined life still not worth living?

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God of Poly-Folly Folly

{If you believe in things that you don't understand, then you suffer ~Stevie Wonder}
.................. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ekkkD8HU944
........................ http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ekkkD8HU944
.................. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ekkkD8HU944


God of Poly-Folly Folly


Last edited by joseph's myth on Thu May 22, 2014 6:29 am, edited 1 time in total.


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teoma2
Post  Post subject: Re: Atheist Post Mormon Moderator  |  Posted: Thu May 22, 2014 6:27 am
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Nor conclusively prove, with credible, verifiable evidence, that there is one.

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joseph's myth
  Post  Post subject: Atheist Post Mormon Moderator  |  Posted: Thu May 22, 2014 6:38 am
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teoma2 wrote:
Nor conclusively prove, with credible, verifiable evidence, that there is one.


So, maybe believing that there simply is no God, is perhaps only a choice. Entirely based on faith.

Still entirely sure that there is no God? Something, is maybe kicking ass here!

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God of Poly-Folly Folly

{If you believe in things that you don't understand, then you suffer ~Stevie Wonder}
.................. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ekkkD8HU944
........................ http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ekkkD8HU944
.................. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ekkkD8HU944


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Rainfeather
Post  Post subject: Re: Atheist Post Mormon Moderator  |  Posted: Thu May 22, 2014 7:05 am
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So what evidence convinced you to choose to believe in God? Because if not believing is a choice, then so must believing be a choice, in which case you wouldn't actually believe, but only have decided to believe.

Although I don't agree with you. I did not sit there and say, "Hmm, which one will I choose?" I tried that and it didn't work. I spent 30 years trying to believe in Mormonism, until I finally gave up and admitted that it was never going to happen. When I tried to believe, it was a complete failure. You can't force yourself to believe something that you don't.

It was a lack of evidence which convinced me that there was no god. It was my own lack of answers which convinced me that no one was there to hear my constant prayers of, "Hello? Is anybody home? Please answer! Let me know that you're there. Please!" I was met was nothing but silence from Heaven. How could I possibly believe when every effort to believe failed?

Studying scientific evidence pointed to it being more likely that there isn't a god, than that there is one.

It's not belief. It's being convinced, or not convinced, and that's what atheism is. It's being not convinced that there is a god and I'm not.

I think that it's just a matter of how each of us think. One person sees the world, looks at the beauty and the variety of life and wonders, "Who created all of this?"

Another person, like myself, says, "Wow! All of this amazing. Let's see if we can figure out how it all came to be," and that's where observation and experiments come in, which involves science.

It's just a different way of thinking and I don't think that we can help how our brains work. I'm not wrong and you're not wrong. I'm not right and you're not right. We've just come to different conclusions given the evidence that we've found, or not found, in our own lives and that's fine. Our experiences probably differ, but even if they were the same, our brains might come to separate conclusions.

It's about observation and conclusions. So again, what did you observe which convinced you that there is a god?

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joseph's myth
Post  Post subject: Atheist Post Mormon Moderator  |  Posted: Thu May 22, 2014 7:39 am
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Scientifically speaking, isn't choosing or making a "decision" mostly, only a choice?

Without evidence, maybe the different choices are in little competition, when defined in strictly scientific terms? Since we know such a tiny tiny fraction of less than a millionth of a percentage of the information and data in this universe.

No answers to prayer? Really? No patiently awaited answering to prayer? How long did you maybe expect to have-to wait for some wisdom from God? How long have people sometimes waited in the past? Can we always expect to box and futilely fight in this, these "God" arenas?

After maybe finding some type of perhaps a Mormon, very LDS style comfort of "knowing" that there is no God, when might be the right time to let the past fall into where it belongs?

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God of Poly-Folly Folly

{If you believe in things that you don't understand, then you suffer ~Stevie Wonder}
.................. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ekkkD8HU944
........................ http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ekkkD8HU944
.................. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ekkkD8HU944


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Melanie
Post  Post subject: Re: Atheist Post Mormon Moderator  |  Posted: Thu May 22, 2014 8:47 am
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I don't have to worry about ......'what about if I made a choice to believe in God and I could have made another choice' because I absolutely have total confidence in the fact that even when I have struggled with this area, as I did a little while back, it is OK because it is not about what I do or choose, because He has got hold of me, whether I believe strongly or not at any given point. I can believe in Him because of His grace.

Because I want it, then I can choose to act in ways that mean I receive this grace. And other people are around me to hold me too. If I wanted to be an atheist, I would not be able to, even if I tried quite hard. I have lived out this little loop! This is Christianity.

From a Christian perspective, with regards to ......
After maybe finding some type of perhaps a Mormon, very LDS style comfort of "knowing" that there is no God, when might be the right time to let the past fall into where it belongs?

.....don't let the LDS organisation influence your future possibilities.

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hagepooh38
Post  Post subject: Re: Atheist Post Mormon Moderator  |  Posted: Thu May 22, 2014 1:18 pm
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I remember a weird mormon youth camp I went to that convinced me there was a god.

It started with us all being led through pitch blackness into the forest because of cloud cover at night. When we found our tiny one man tents we slept. Oh yeah, I forgot to mention we were blindfolded (duh, that's why it was pitch black) IN the morning we fasted until around 2 or 3pm. In the meanwhile we did prayers and talked about the pioneers and some stupid games designed to build blind faith.

We also were told all the reasons why planet earth is not mere cosmological randomness. They pointed out how vastly different earth would be if it were off just a little from the orbit it is in, the orbit of the moon, the amount of oxygen in the air, etc.,. and right there I decided that no matter what there is a god. Right before our meal at the peak of our frail defenses, we were instructed to go to a secluded area of the woods and pray just like Joseph Smith did. Oh, that and we were given a sealed envelope to read after. I prayed and read the letter which had a lot of personal info in it. Stuff you would only know if you lived with me. I thought, this really is the true church, how else could they know all this. Then at the bottom I read my dad's signature and the spell was broken.

I threw away mormonism shortly after but never the idea of god. Those crazy exercises in thought control had me shaken but for whatever reason that idea about god remained.

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"For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God" Romans 3:23


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joseph's myth
Post  Post subject: Atheist Post Mormon Moderator  |  Posted: Thu May 22, 2014 1:55 pm
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Almost sounds like a current infant binding process, still taught in schools and LDS churches among the Mormon women and their over-busy and backwards ways. Cept hagepooh38, you weren't an infant, huh?

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{If you believe in things that you don't understand, then you suffer ~Stevie Wonder}
.................. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ekkkD8HU944
........................ http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ekkkD8HU944
.................. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ekkkD8HU944


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Rainfeather
Post  Post subject: Re: Atheist Post Mormon Moderator  |  Posted: Thu May 22, 2014 5:29 pm
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I know that non-belief isn't a choice, because I couldn't choose to believe. No matter how hard I tried, I'd know that I was lying to myself. I couldn't do it.

And I'm 55 years old. So god either doesn't like me very much, or I'm just deaf. Or, maybe he just isn't there.

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joseph's myth
Post  Post subject: Atheist Post Mormon Moderator  |  Posted: Thu May 22, 2014 6:33 pm
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Rainfeather wrote:
I know that non-belief isn't a choice, because I couldn't choose to believe. No matter how hard I tried, I'd know that I was lying to myself. I couldn't do it.

And I'm 55 years old. So god either doesn't like me very much, or I'm just deaf. Or, maybe he just isn't there.


My God acts very deftly too Rain, couldn't really be very much more unpredictable and uncaged. All I keep doing is believing God loves me greatly.

I liked everything you said. :)

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{If you believe in things that you don't understand, then you suffer ~Stevie Wonder}
.................. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ekkkD8HU944
........................ http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ekkkD8HU944
.................. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ekkkD8HU944


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Abinadi
Post  Post subject: Re: Atheist Post Mormon Moderator  |  Posted: Thu May 22, 2014 7:22 pm
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"Faith" is not just what some religious people claim who say it is "belief in what cannot be seen."
"Faith" more simply is belief in whatever a person believes in.
An atheist's "faith" is the belief that there is no God.

I misexpressed this once, enraging an atheist who claimed he had no faith whatsoever. Everyone has faith. Faith in many things. Faith they'll get paid for their work. Faith they'll complete schooling. Faith that what they eat won't poison them. Faith that an umbrella will keep off some of the rain.

Faith actually does relate to evidence. "Absence of evidence is not evidence of absence." Most people believe in what they do regardless of the evidence. Those who use evidence, unfortunately they almost universally have insufficient evidence, and misinterpret the little evidence they do have.

When it comes to God, "proof" to an atheist means nothing less than "Stand God here in front of me and I will believe."
When it comes to other areas - biology, geology, astronomy, evolution - "proof" is whatever the best explanation is for the evidence.
When it comes to "proof" - or evidence - for atheism, there can be none. The universe is infinite. However much we look, God may be just around the next corner. The universe, as we experience, is in large part physical. If God is not a physical being, looking for physical evidence (e.g., his physical body) in a physical universe will prove fruitless.

I enjoy reading books on evidence for God, religion, angels, ontology, etc. When I come across the word "proof" in such books, I always take it to mean "evidence". The difference between theists and atheists is not in the evidence. It is in the interpretation of the evidence, and their conclusions; there is no such thing as proof, I once thought. However, I recently read a book which, like others, uses the word "proof." I regretted seeing that word once again. Until I read the book. The author was not comfortable with the word "God" however; and neither am I, by the way. The term he used was "unconditioned transcendent reality." I like that. The word "God" is, to me, too tied up with specific, and generally mistaken, notions of what that unconditioned, transcendent reality really is. After the author presented his case, I could not help but agree that the word "proof" was correct. He had indeed provided a proof, in the very formal sense of the word, for the existence of God. I believe that both theists and atheists unfamiliar with this this author's logical thinking, have their faiths - theistic faith and atheistic faith - founded on sand. Their beliefs cannot stand. Neither of them. Many theists have applied logic to argue exhaustively for the existence of God; but for everyone who has, ten million don't have an inkling of the logic and reasoning behind those arguments. Many atheists have applied logic to argue thoroughly against the existence of God; but for every such philosopher who has, ten thousand have no more of an argument except to whine that there is suffering in the world or they can't "see" God with their eyes. Many atheists seem to think that arguing against and disproving Christianity is tantamount to disproving the existence of God. But they haven't disproved Allah, Krishna, and Buddha.

Summary of an atheistic viewpoint:

There are no cogent arguments in favor of atheism.
Atheism is not just the absence of belief that there is a God,
but is the very lean belief itself, that the universe is godless.
Atheists demand evidence, but reject evidence that does not fit into their increasingly narrow, prejudicially arbitrary definition of "evidence".
Contemporary atheist philosophers argue that if there were a God, he would give enough evidence of His existence to convince everyone. However, they are unable to prove that if God existed, He would provide any more evidence of His existence than what we have, or any evidence at all. Why should he?

Many atheists asks, "If there is a God, why is there suffering?" I ask, "If there is no God, why is there pleasure?" Is there really suffering, and if so, what does that mean? What is the origin, content, cause, result, and purpose of suffering? - those questions have to be asked before I would be willing to say either that God allows too much suffering or that God does not allow enough suffering. Maybe we need more. I went to the dentist once; he did something, but I needed more suffering to get the problem solved. Maybe we have a problem that needs more suffering to solve.

Atheists argue from the point of view that God owes us something - a job, health, happiness, a job, an answer to our prayers, kind treatment by others as imperfect and unknowing as ourselves, fairness, justice, peace, long life, safety of our children, protection from crime, calamity, disease, pain, and death. But none of the ones I have read give any kind of an explanation or argument as to why God would want to give us these (outside of some nondescript, mushy, purposeless "love" which is really more like an overly permissive, uninvolved parent than a concerned parent letting their child learn to cope with their problems on their own like adults), should give us these, or owes us these. Such answers would require a clear picture of the Nature of God, something atheists apparently cannot do. Instead they borrow idealistic or fanciful images from simplistic religious texts, almost always Christian, without regard to the social context which requires a simplistic expression of a not simplistic Nature. (God's nature may be "simple" but it is not "simplistic".) Besides, there's no guarantee that the Christian view is correct.

The book which has finally convinced me not only that the "evidence" for the existence of God is overwhelming, but that there is in fact genuine "proof" for the existence of the "unconditioned transcendental reality" is Robert J. Spitzer's "New Proofs for the Existence of God." I am not comfortable speaking so strongly on this subject, but feel obligated to commend this author. Future arguments pro and con will be hard pressed not to address the arguments made in this incredible book.


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Rainfeather
Post  Post subject: Re: Atheist Post Mormon Moderator  |  Posted: Thu May 22, 2014 8:38 pm
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Abinadi wrote:
An atheist's "faith" is the belief that there is no God.


That's probably where you got into trouble with the atheist that you were talking to. Atheism is not a belief that there is no god. Atheism is a lack of belief. I don't know why that one seems to be so difficult to get across. It means not finding enough evidence to constitute a belief in god. It simply means I'm not a theist. It doesn't mean that I believe there is no god.

Some atheists do take it a step further and state that they actually do believe that there is no god, but that is not a requirement of atheism. It's an individual thing.

I stated in a previous post that I do not believe in god, but if you ask me, "Does god exist," I'd say, "I've no idea." But I've never made the statement that god doesn't exist. I'm simply not convinced that one exists.

I've often heard this expression to describe atheism. "Atheism is a religion like abstinence is a sex position."

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hagepooh38
Post  Post subject: Re: Atheist Post Mormon Moderator  |  Posted: Thu May 22, 2014 10:36 pm
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joseph's myth wrote:
Almost sounds like a current infant binding process, still taught in schools and LDS churches among the Mormon women and their over-busy and backwards ways. Cept hagepooh38, you weren't an infant, huh?


Not then, but technically I am in the nursery now.

It's ironic though. Back then the common scientific belief was that there was no water or ice at all in our solar system let alone the galaxy. (aside from ice particles on comets) Now we know ice is everywhere in our solar system. Our moon, the craters at the poles on Mercury that never see the sun, Mars, some of the moons of Jupiter and Saturn, not to mention oceans under the ice of Enceladus and Europa. Then there's newly discovered planets orbiting distant stars in the "habitable zone" of life with chemical signatures of water and oxygen on them.

So the idea of earth being such a rare oasis of life in the universe is beginning to fade. The argument that only intelligent design by god could have put together our planet in such a unique fashion loses some of it's validity.

_________________
"Let no one disqualify you, insisting on asceticism and worship of angels, going on in detail about visions, puffed up without reason by his sensuous mind." - Colossians 2:18

"For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God" Romans 3:23


Last edited by hagepooh38 on Sun May 25, 2014 2:37 pm, edited 1 time in total.


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Melanie
Post  Post subject: Re: Atheist Post Mormon Moderator  |  Posted: Fri May 23, 2014 2:55 am
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joseph's myth wrote:
All I keep doing is believing God loves me greatly.


Good Morning, my friend. He does even when you don't! :greetings-clappingyellow:

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joseph's myth
Post  Post subject: Atheist Post Mormon Moderator  |  Posted: Fri May 23, 2014 3:48 am
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Lilly wrote:
joseph's myth wrote:
All I keep doing is believing God loves me greatly.


Good Morning, my friend. He does even when you don't! :greetings-clappingyellow:

Mostly, God seems to love transparency and honesty, something "Life's Little Lesson On LDS Lying" may be teaching Mormon leaders.

Honesty cements and is soldering in making all healthy relationships much better and more valuable for everyday enjoyment.

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{If you believe in things that you don't understand, then you suffer ~Stevie Wonder}
.................. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ekkkD8HU944
........................ http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ekkkD8HU944
.................. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ekkkD8HU944


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Abinadi
Post  Post subject: Re: Atheist Post Mormon Moderator  |  Posted: Fri May 23, 2014 10:18 am
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Rainfeather wrote:
Abinadi wrote:
An atheist's "faith" is the belief that there is no God.
That's probably where you got into trouble with the atheist that you were talking to. Atheism is not a belief that there is no god. Atheism is a lack of belief. I don't know why that one seems to be so difficult to get across. It means not finding enough evidence to constitute a belief in god. It simply means I'm not a theist. It doesn't mean that I believe there is no god.

Some atheists do take it a step further and state that they actually do believe that there is no god, but that is not a requirement of atheism. It's an individual thing.
That is correct. That is what I was attempting to explain. Some atheists claim they do not believe there is no God, only that they do not have a belief that there is a God. Others say they do believe there is no God. The two claims are different, but both claims are found among atheists. It is inaccurate to say all atheists believe either one way or the other. The community is divided.

Compare my saying , “I believe that there is no green cheese on the Moon” with “I do not believe that there is green cheese on the Moon.” There’s a difference between saying, “I do not believe 'x'” and “I believe 'not-x'.” Where we place the negation is significant.

But those atheists err who claim atheism is just not-believing that there is a God, rather than believing that there is no-God.

Certain atheists in the mid-twentieth century argued for the a “presumption of atheism.” They said, in the absence of evidence for the existence of God, we have to presume that God does not exist. They claimed to win the argument by default, claiming it is the theist who carries the burden of proof. Of course you can see where that is a mistaken view, because the claim that there is no God is as much a claim to knowledge as the claim there is a God. Agnostics don't claim knowledge at all. They just don't know and aren't afraid to say so directly (generally speaking).

But there is a problem. Those arguing for the default "presumption of atheism" have defined the word in a special way. They are using it in a very weak form, as a synonym for "non-theist." Such a use has to include agnostics, traditional atheists (those who say there absolutely is no such thing as God), verificationists (those who say the question of the existence of God is meaningless to begin with), as well as the neo-atheists pretending that atheism means only non-belief in God rather than belief that God does not exist.

That attempted redefinition trivializes the claim of the presumption of atheism, because by this definition, atheism ceases to be a view. It is merely a psychological state shared by people who hold various views or no view at all. So even cattle, artichokes, and bacteria, who hold no opinions at all, count as atheists.

One still needs justification to know either that God exists or does not exist, which is the real question.

Why are neo-atheists trivializing their position? It's kind of self-deceptive. If atheism is the view that there is no God, then they themselves have to shoulder their share of the burden of proof to support their view. But most if not all atheists admit they cannot provide proof for their belief that there is no God. "So they try to avoid their epistemic responsibility by re-defining atheism so that it is no longer a view but just a psychological condition which as such makes no assertions. They are really closet agnostics who want to claim the mantle of atheism without shouldering its responsibilities."

Almost all of this is from "Definition of Atheism" (Q&A #6), and "Theistic Critiques Of Atheism," both at ReasonableFaith org.

And, as I indicated, Robert Spitzer’s book makes the question moot anyway, as he really does prove that “God” (unconditioned transcendent reality) does in fact “exist”. After that, anyone who claims there is no God, or that there is no way to know if God exists is uninformed or simply an agnostic.


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Abinadi
Post  Post subject: Re: Atheist Post Mormon Moderator  |  Posted: Fri May 23, 2014 11:19 am
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hagepooh38 wrote:
Back then the common scientific belief was that there was no water or ice at all in our solar system let alone the galaxy. (aside from ice particles on comets)
It had been believed that there was ice on Mars since the time of Cassini (1666). William Smyth (1801-1861) proposed the existence of ice on Jupiter when he published "Cycle of Celestial Objects" around 1859. William Whewell (1794-1866), in "The Plurality of Worlds," written with Edward Hitchcock (1793-1864) Professor of Geology and Theology. likewise both reported that astronomers saw evidence of frost on Mars and ice on Jupiter (possibly Saturn, too).
hagepooh38 wrote:
Now we know ice is everywhere in our solar system. Our moon, the craters at the poles on mercury that never see the sun, mars, some of the moons of Jupiter and saturn, not to mention oceans under the ice of Enceladus and Europa. Then there's newly discovered planets orbiting distant stars in the "habitable zone" of life with chemical signatures of water and oxygen on them.
You're making me thirsty. :) Obama has suggested crashing some ice asteroids onto the earth to provide more drinking water.

hagepooh38 wrote:
So the idea of earth being such a rare oasis of life in the universe is beginning to fade. The argument that only intelligent design by god could have put together our planet in such a unique fashion loses some of it's validity.
Since Intelligent Design theories don't address the creation of water and ice, but of life, they will most likely be unaffected by any currently imaginable discoveries relating to the first formation of water and ice.

And what about non-water life!? I used to follow science fiction analyses of the biochemistry of alien life forms. Like "Mission of Gravity" and a lot of short stories in "Analog Science Fact and Fiction." They were fascinating. I've since learned that a lot of the possible alternatives to Carbon, Oxygen, and Water, while theoretically suitable, are not as flexible (is that the right word?) as C, H, and O, in forming molecules that can do the things needing to be done at the level of DNA, RNA, centrioles, centrosomes, rybozomes, etc. Nevertheless, I am one of those who still half-expects and fully wishes we find "life" on other planets. It looks increasingly less likely - "If not us, who? If not Mars, where?" - but I haven't given up watching for a discovery of life elsewhere.


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Rainfeather
Post  Post subject: Re: Atheist Post Mormon Moderator  |  Posted: Fri May 23, 2014 5:22 pm
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Abinadi wrote:
They claimed to win the argument by default, claiming it is the theist who carries the burden of proof. Of course you can see where that is a mistaken view, because the claim that there is no God is as much a claim to knowledge as the claim there is a God.


Exactly. That's why the basic meaning of "atheist" can't mean a belief that there is no god, because then you're still making a positive assertion and you have the same burden of proof. Atheism is about non-belief and is not a positive statement. If you go beyond that basic belief, then you're taking it another step and going beyond that basic meaning. It becomes about the person's personal beliefs.

For me, it truly just means that I'm not convinced. The burden of proof on the positive assertion that there is a god has not been met, from my point-of-view. So I'm not a theist. A-theist. Non-theist. Non-golfer. Non-postage stamp collector. A-sexual, non-sexual. They don't indicate belief. They're about what someone is not, rather than what they are.

The strangest thing of all to me is why people seem to care so much what other people believe. If someone believes in god, then that doesn't affect me at all. I really don't care. I have friends for whom a belief in god seems to be imperative to their emotional well-being. I would never wish to argue with them about it.

I don't mind giving my opinion, if asked, but I'm not a debater. I'm a very peaceful person. I just get annoyed when people presume to know how I feel about something (not saying anyone has done that here - I'm just talking generally about the constant atheist/theist debates that I see on-line).

I don't really understand why it needs to be a war in the first place, but it often breaks down into one fairly quickly. That's something that I really like about this forum. 99% of the time, seems always manage to remain peaceful.

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joseph's myth
Post  Post subject: Atheist Post Mormon Moderator  |  Posted: Sat May 24, 2014 11:09 am
God of Poly-Folly

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Atheism followers and the many different atheists hardly should be expected to maybe adhere to the same faith based beliefs or therefore, many variants of possibly similar belief systems. Hard to maybe detect any difference in believing in no God, absence of God, and mystery or incredibly mysterious God.

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{If you believe in things that you don't understand, then you suffer ~Stevie Wonder}
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Whit
Post  Post subject: Re: Atheist Post Mormon Moderator  |  Posted: Sat May 24, 2014 7:26 pm
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Sunbeam

Joined: Mon Apr 28, 2014 6:53 pm
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joseph's myth wrote:
Since atheism is a choice, maybe since the beginning of time, it has remained impossible to openly prove that there is no God.


Atheism isn't a choice, it's a return to our original state, our birth right as we are all born atheists. Parents and culture alter that state by programming the child with their religions.

Quote:
Atheists largely follow a set of prescribed beliefs, one popular belief being the outright lie that there is no belief systems for atheism.


It's a bit more complex - there are differences in knowledge [gnostic atheist], affirmation [implicit and explicit atheists], scope [broad and narrow atheists], assessed rationality of Theism [indifferent atheist], openness [closet and open atheists], action [passive and evangelical atheists], and religiosity [religious and non religious atheists].

Quote:
All choices regardless of where the belief is rooted require faith.


The majority of atheists prefer science......faith requires a foundation in delusion, magic thinking, denial, and a herd mentality...

Quote:
Faith could be a component of this, the human condition.
Is an unexamined life still not worth living?


For those who believe in God, most of the big questions are answered. But for those of us who can't readily accept the God formula, the big answers don't remain stone-written. We adjust to new conditions and discoveries. We are pliable. Love need not be a command nor faith a dictum. I am my own god. We are here to unlearn the teachings of the church, state, and our educational system. We are here to drink beer. We are here to kill war. We are here to laugh at the odds and live our lives so well that Death will tremble to take us.” ― Charles Bukowski


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