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kevincarey19067
Post  Post subject: My testimony  |  Posted: Thu Apr 07, 2016 2:52 pm
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The Testimony of a man named Kevin Carey
When I was in prison (for 10 years) I went thru a lot of changes. When you first get "in"
you are angry at everyone and everything. After no one came to visit me I
realized I was the problem. I swore I would never become one of those
"prison bible thumpers" that is only saved in prison, and then the minute they
walk out the door the bible goes in the trash. I did end up doing some
serious soul searching though. I studied Buddhism. I read the Koran. I went to
Catholic services, Seventh Day Advents services, Native American, and on
and on. Nothing worked, nothing felt right. So after going to the "hole", I
read the whole Bible. I had nothing else to do. I wanted more. Then one day
I found a magazine in the trash. The Magazine was called Ensign. It had a
large picture of Jesus on it, and the whole magazine was about Christ. I
fell in love with it. I loved what it said. So I went looking for members of
The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints. I asked around and someone
told me "Yea, they are The Mormons". Finding "Mormons" in prison is not an
easy task. Then a guy told me there was a "Mormon" that worked down at the
prison library. It ended up being a guy I couldn't stand, and he couldn't
stand me. I walked up to him and he said to me in a not so ‘nice way’.
"What do you want?" I showed him the magazine and said that I wanted to
learn about it. He looked at me and said "Are you serious? You better not
be messin with me." I said “I’m serious.” and he looked at me and said "Really?” When
he saw I was serious, he changed. His face and whole body changed in an
instant. Then he smiled and said “I would love to. Come with me." He
took a copy of the Book of Mormon off the shelf and began to tell me about
it. A lot of what he told me at the time made no sense. He also gave me the
address to Correctional Services in Salt Lake City. I wrote to them about
topics over the years that were on my mind and heart. The one that sticks
out in my mind was a book on forgiveness. One day I requested a Bible study
from them and what I got was a home seminary study guide to the Book of
Mormon. I wrote them back and told them I had no Book of Mormon (this was
years later after talking to the library worker). The Book of Mormon didn't
change me at first, but it always seemed to be there in hard times, and
trust me there were a lot of hard times in prison. As my interest grew in
the Book of Mormon, and in the "Mormon" faith I began seeking out other
"Mormons" in prison, and when I did find them. They all had the same look
on their face when I asked them about their faith. It was a look of loss,
and of longing, pain, and a general “man I screwed up”. I wanted whatever it
was that had caused them to feel that way. It had to be good, it had to be
great, and it had to be real. I wanted to know why Mormons always walked around
with a smile on their faces. But what really did it for me was almost dying
in prison from pneumonia. I was so sick. I had gotten to the point where I knew
I was going to die, so I made my peace with God. I told him that “hey there
are things I want to do in this world, amends I need to make, people I hurt that I need
to say sorry to, but God if you are going to take me, I accept that.” I
was at peace with that, I was at ease, and have been ever since. There
were times in prison where my sorrow were so strong because of my guilt for the
things I had done in this life, I wanted God to destroy me and my soul. Much
like Alma in the book of Alma Chapter 36. Verses 12 & 15 which really spoke to
me. I wanted to be a better person, I wanted to give back. I wanted to make
amends. The Book of Mormon has changed me in so many ways. My parents, who
hate religion, support my choice to join the church, because they say they
like the changes it has made in me. I love my life now. I want to keep
inspiring others. I didn't at first. I wanted to find a hole and crawl in
it when I got out of prison. Lay low, go to church, pay taxes, and get a job,
normal things. Instead I am exposed, helping others with my acts and my
testimony.
-Kevin Carey


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productofchoice
Post  Post subject: Re: My testimony  |  Posted: Thu Apr 07, 2016 4:04 pm
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Hi Kevin,

Welcome.

You read the Book of Mormon and believed it because it made sense. I did too for a long time. Then I read it as a History and asked, does this make sense?

See you might never be able to prove that Jesus appeared to a people in the Americas. But what you have documented in this book is a whole big story around it.

There are pages that talk about the lineage of the people in it, that they were Hebrews and that they practiced Hebrew law and you can compare their behaviors to the behaviors of the people they left. Do the Nephites accurately keep the Hebrew law? Do they keep the holy days? The customs? The dress? The diet? There are laws about how they must act ... do they follow them?

There should be genetic markers that could be found and identified in their descendants tracing back to the Hebrew nation. Do they exist in the Native Americans? What about the horses, chariots, elephants, bees, silk, steel armor, coins and other items spoken of in the Book of Mormon, do they exist in the Americas?

Millions are documented to have died at the Hill Camorah, where are the remains?

Where is the linguistic trace? The artistic trace? The cultural trace?

Why does the text of the Book of Mormon resemble the text of so many books in Joseph Smith's era? Like the "View of the Hebrews"?

Why would the Book of Mormon speak so much about the translators that were preserved and buried with it for the purpose of translating and yet they are not used in the translation process... is that proper translation?

What about the anachronisms? Long before Jesus the Nephites were getting baptized and being given the Holy Spirit... Didn't Jesus say that it's better that I go so that the Comforter can come?

What about the many word for word extracts from the old King James bible, sections that even exactly contain translation errors? What about the sections in 3 Nephi that match Matthew 5-6 and then were latter retranslated to something different in Joseph Smith's translation of the bible?

What about the unrealistic population growth rates?

Or the Jaredite boats that spent a year sealed closed, often going underwater.

So many questions. So many things that just don't work so many things that if you study them out in your mind first, before you ask God, that you wouldn't if it's true. It's false beyond any reasonable doubt.

Peace

_________________
I resigned from the Church of THE Jesus Christ of the Latter Day Saints (Feb 2011)

"For nothing is secret, that shall not be made manifest; neither any thing hid, that shall not be known and come abroad." - Luke 8:17


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leftasteen
Post  Post subject: Re: My testimony  |  Posted: Sat Apr 09, 2016 3:27 pm
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Congrats for wanting to turn around your life and help others. But, your original desire not to become "one of those bible thumpers" was a good one.

You have been duped by a religion based on made-up stuff. Joseph Smith and other leaders used this fabricated doctrine to control people, to get money and support, and ultimately to have sex with many different women. Like gang leaders, or other cult leaders, they used fear, guilt, and "obedience" to serve themselves.

Does it make sense to you that God restored the "one true Gospel" but forgot the chapter on Polygamy? Then he called Joseph Smith up later and added it as an intregral part of his eternal plan. Then a few decades later he cancelled that part all together? Does that sound like eternal truth to you?

Same thing on the Black Curse. Does it make sense that God's eternal truth, revealed directly to Mormon Prophets, would change back and forth in just a few years? Is this "omnipotent" God really that fickle and indecisive?

Keep doing good, but not in the name of a false religion founded by a philanderer and pedophile.


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JonMinLoganUtah
Post  Post subject: Re: My testimony  |  Posted: Sat Apr 09, 2016 5:18 pm
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Kevin,

Welcome to the Forum. But as you see its called Exmormonforums. Its mostly lingerers and ex mormons who are thru with the Church. I am one of those who are thru. I was where you were. I went to jail. I did my time. I struggled spiritually while in that dark place. I was raised LDS. I believed once. But the happiness you feel and the hope you have will crumble if you really delve into the areas the Church does not want you to discover. They want everyone to follow the Rainbow/Cookie Cutter version that has been around for years. You are new to this religion. Find a good middle ground and research. Thats what i did. I found lies, half truths, complete fabrications and lots of double speak.

Congrats on your spiritual journey. Don't brush off anyone of the thousands of religions as not being true. Take something from everyone.

Thanks,
Jon

_________________
http://www.jonathankmarshall.blogspot.com


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teoma2
Post  Post subject: Re: My testimony  |  Posted: Sun Apr 10, 2016 2:05 pm
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Kevin, with the advances of the Internet, its possible to mine it for data from all corners of our world now efficiently.

At this point in your life's journey, I would like to make a suggestion that you Google up: "State of New York vs. Joseph Smith"

After that, be honest and ask yourself: What it is that you know, and not believe in what others tell you that they think they know, for change may not occur and you will not know your own truth, but only that of others.

Truth is always found, not given....and I can't give you my truth, but you can find yours with the acquisition of more knowledge.

_________________
"When authority masquerades as a power, a simple question will unmask it."

"Just because you think, feel, or believe something is true, doesn't make it true!"

"The doubt of your faith, is not God testing you, but truth trying to emerge and free you."


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richkelsey.org
Post  Post subject: Re: My testimony  |  Posted: Mon Apr 11, 2016 4:34 pm
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About the opening post: It spells out a story of a person who has a life-changing experience after first reading an Ensign magazine, encounters with Mormons in prison; and then, reading the Book of Mormon. I can't help but wonder if this was a hit and run post. And/or, if it was meant to rile the members here who are convinced that the Book of Mormon, the LDS Faith, and the Prophet Joseph Smith, are not trustworthy enough to defend; let alone devote one's life to.

One thing is certain: All of the strong testimonies Mormons have born to me so far have carried about as much weight as smoke; or less, as in the case of the laughing man who rejected the LDS history of Joseph Smith's seer stone use: see http://richkelsey.org/seerstone_articles__lds.org.html

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Rainfeather
Post  Post subject: Re: My testimony  |  Posted: Mon Apr 11, 2016 5:54 pm
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Yeah, I almost said the other day that most of these types of posts are just hit-and-runs.

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"A mind stretched by a new idea can never go back to its original dimensions." - Oliver Wendell Holmes


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kevincarey19067
Post  Post subject: Re: My testimony  |  Posted: Wed Apr 13, 2016 12:50 pm
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No it's not a hit and run. I am just busy. I don't have all day to sit on the computer. Not to offend anyone that does. I don't believe because of what I read. I believe because of what I see and feel. I use to hate Christians. The truth is that this faith has taken a lot of my hate, matter of fact I am not angry or hateful anymore. Maybe I am wrong. Maybe everything is a lie. I only know that this is the path for me. These people don't judge me or close doors on me. They embrace me. I had no one. Maybe I am a fool. Maybe I am right. I only wanted to share what happened to me in a very dark place. I felt like God pulled me out of the darkness. I really get Lehi's dream, and Alma chapter 36 verses 12 and 15. I regret the life I led. I only want a better life. I want to give back to God and my fellow man. I am not here to muddy the water. I am only here to talk.


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richkelsey.org
Post  Post subject: Re: My testimony  |  Posted: Wed Apr 13, 2016 2:06 pm
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Hello kevincarey19067.

The people on this board are so wonderful — They took me in!

You clearly said that you were up for some dialog.

Awesome!

Perhaps you will fit in here?

_________________
My LDS Series:
http://www.richkelsey.org/lds_index.html
Rich Kelsey


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richkelsey.org
Post  Post subject: Re: My testimony  |  Posted: Wed Apr 13, 2016 9:07 pm
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kevincarey19067

One more thing. I also have a testimony; it can be found on-line; and, it starts like this:
Quote:
"I was born in Renton, WA, in 1955. I grew up in the 1960s. The culture of the day consisted of pure godless heathenism: black-light posters, hippies, sex, drugs and rock and roll. People in my world were not thinking or talking about God. Also, not only did teachers from elementary school throughout high school never convey the idea of God to me; they reinforced the prevailing concept in the media that God did not exist." — http://richkelsey.org/my_near_death_experience.htm

I think you will find it to be an informative read.

Rich


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kevincarey19067
Post  Post subject: Re: My testimony  |  Posted: Thu Apr 14, 2016 12:50 pm
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You know they talk about all of you in Lehi's dream.


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Melanie
Post  Post subject: Re: My testimony  |  Posted: Thu Apr 14, 2016 5:32 pm
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John Larsen, a man I greatly respect for the way he reaches out and helps people, and who himself has left the LDS religion, said once that he believes that for some people, they are better off in the organisation. He was meaning for some personalities/ circumstances I believe.
Just yesterday I really longed for all that I used to have when I was LDS. However, I gave it all up to gain something greater, which was for me trying to find Jesus as He is in the Bible and I just was not prepared any longer to have to believe that He is a created being, which is what the LDS church espouses. It has been a bit of a journey!
Jesus breaks through everywhere! He caught me when I was in difficulty and nurtured me in the Mormon church for a while, I had hoped and expected it would be forever. It is exciting His hand on your life. It is awesome you want to give back to God and to man. Concentrate on Jesus and all will be well. It is only him that matters. Psalm 51 v 4. You don't need Joseph.

Glad to meet you :)

_________________
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How to heal? http://media.blubrry.com/mormonexpressi ... ion225.mp3


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Rainfeather
Post  Post subject: Re: My testimony  |  Posted: Thu Apr 14, 2016 5:58 pm
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LOL Lehi's dream was really Joseph Smith's Dad's dream.

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richkelsey.org
Post  Post subject: Re: My testimony  |  Posted: Mon Apr 18, 2016 9:54 am
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Rainfeather wrote:
LOL Lehi's dream was really Joseph Smith's Dad's dream.

Rainfeather!

You're looking back to Lucy Smith's first draft of her history in which the dream in question looks like it somehow made its way into the BOM.

We could go further ahead in time:

Quote:
Lucy Smith's history was written in 1844-45. Then, about 10% of her words were deleted and many changes were made to the remaining text. Also, to better align her history with the History of the Church, sections were added from the History of the Church and the Times and Seasons magazine before it was first published in England in 1853. Yet, even with all the changes, additions and deleted text, Lucy Smith's history still did not find approval with the standing Prophet, Seer, and Revelator of the Church back in his day.

Therefore,

"... a committee of revision was appointed by President Young consisting of President George A. Smith and Judge Elias Smith, cousins of the Prophet, men personally familiar with the family and thoroughly conversant with Church history. They were instructed carefully to revise and correct the original work throughout, which they did..." (History of the Mormon Joseph Smith by His Mother... Preston Nibley, Edition reprint, Publisher Kessinger Publishing, 2004, Introduction to First Utah Edition, pp. VII-VIII)

The corrected edition's 2004 reprint spells out the following statement in its opening pages:

"The picture of Mrs. Smith, used in this volume, which we believe is accurate in all its details, was obtained by President George Alber Smith in September, 1942... It is with pleasure that we present this new edition of the 'History of the Prophet Joseph Smith,' by his mother, to the members of the Church and to the world." (History of the Mormon Joseph Smith by His Mother... Preston Nibley, Edition reprint, Publisher Kessinger Publishing, 2004, Foreward, p. X)

Explain to the family that this version of "Lucy Smith's history" of her son Joseph Smith is said to be

"... accurate in all its details ..."

and that is why we are using it in today's lesson.

Also explain that the reason we are reading the history of Joseph Smith by his Mother is because it contains details that will be new and exciting for us, as a family, to learn.

Then, read the following quote from Lucy's history:

(p.83)
"On the twenty-second of September, 1824, Joseph again visited the place where he found the plates the year previous; and supposing at this time that the only thing required, in order to possess them until the time for their translation, was to be able to keep the commandments of God--and he firmly believed he could keep every commandment which had been given him--he fully expected to carry them home with him. Therefore, having arrived at the place, and uncovering the plates, he put forth his hand and took them up, but, as he was taking them hence, the unhappy thought darted through his mind that probably there was something else in the box besides the plates, which would be of some pecuniary advantage to him. So, in the moment of excitement, he laid them down very carefully, for the purpose of covering the box, lest some one might happen to pass that way and get whatever there might be remaining in it. After covering it, he turned round to take the Record again, but behold it was gone, and where, he knew not, neither did he know the means by which it had been taken from him.

(p.84)
At this, as a natural consequence, he was much alarmed. He kneeled down and asked the Lord why the Record had been taken from him; upon which the angel of the Lord appeared to him, and told him that he had not done as he had been commanded, for in a former revelation he had been commanded not to lay the plates down, or put them for a moment out of his hands, until he got into the house and deposited them in a chest or trunk, having a good lock and key, and, contrary to this, he had laid them down with the view of securing some fancied or imaginary treasure that remained.

In the moment of excitement, Joseph was overcome by the powers of darkness, and forgot the injunction that was laid upon him.

Having some further conversation with the angel, on this occasion, Joseph was permitted to raise the stone again, when he beheld the plates as he had done before. He immediately reached forth his hand to take them, but instead of getting them, as he anticipated, he was hurled back upon the ground with great violence. When he recovered, the angel was gone, and he arose and returned to the house, weeping for grief and disappointment.

As he was aware that we would expect him to bring the plates home with him, he was greatly troubled, fearing that we might doubt his having seen them. As soon as he entered the house, my husband asked if he had obtained the plates. The answer was, 'No, father, I could not get them.'

His father then said, 'Did you see them?'

'Yes,' replied Joseph, 'I saw them, but could not take them.'

(p.85)
"'I would have taken them,' rejoined his father, with much earnestness, 'if I had been in your place.'

'Why,' returned Joseph, in quite a subdued tone, 'you do not know what you say. I could not get them, for the angel of the Lord would not let me.'" (History of the Mormon Joseph Smith by His Mother ... Lucy Mack Smith, Contributor Preston Nibley, Edition reprint, Publisher Kessinger Publishing, 2004, Chapter 18, pp. 83-85)


Envision Joseph Smith coming back to the house without the plates:

"...greatly troubled, fearing that ... [his parents] might doubt his having seen them."

Obviously, the story Joseph had to tell after failing to bring the plates home was convincing enough.

On this subject: Ask the family if they had ever heard about Joseph being,

"... hurled back upon the ground with great violence ..." (Lucy, p.84)

Listen intently and respond to any questions that may arise?

Then, tell the family that, according to the story, it was really important for Joseph not to,

"... put them [the golden plates] for a moment out of his hands, until he got into the house and deposited them in a chest or trunk, having a good lock and key, ..."

Also, explain that Joseph had told a similar story to his close friend Joseph Knight:

"And after he had Covered the place he turned round to take the Book [golden plates] and it was not there and he was astonished that the Book was gone. He thot he would look in the place again and see if it had not got Back again. He had heard people tell of such things." (Joseph Knight’s Recollection of Early Mormon History) —http://richkelsey.org/lds_fhe_lesson3.html

[Some] Mormons do not like to look into history which does not line up to the faithful history they find so comforting. If they do end up being subjected to such troubling history, their testimony fixes everything. Hence the title of this thread: "My testimony."


Last edited by richkelsey.org on Tue Apr 19, 2016 6:38 am, edited 1 time in total.


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richkelsey.org
Post  Post subject: Re: My testimony  |  Posted: Mon Apr 18, 2016 1:31 pm
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Also, not one LDS Elder who I have spoken with over the yesrs knew about Joseph being,

"... hurled back upon the ground with great violence ..." (Lucy, p.84)

the first time he tried to obtain the plates. Yet, this was the theme of the original story.

When asked, every Elder said

"No"

they had not heard of Joseph Smith setting the plates down, or, that he had been told not to.

Not one Elder had read Lucy's history, knew who Joseph Knight was, etc.

Obviously, if they had facts which can easily be found @ LDS.org, their testimonies would vanish just like the details left out in LDS faithful history.

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My LDS Series:
http://www.richkelsey.org/lds_index.html
Rich Kelsey


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kevincarey19067
Post  Post subject: Re: My testimony  |  Posted: Mon Apr 18, 2016 4:55 pm
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I don't understand why all of you are so upset about what others believe. They aren't hurting you by believing in The Book of Mormon.


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Rainfeather
Post  Post subject: Re: My testimony  |  Posted: Mon Apr 18, 2016 5:57 pm
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Of course they're not. I don't care what other people believe. I'm not on any Mormon chatrooms or forums at all. You're the one who came to an ex-Mormon forum and opened up a discussion, in which case some people are going to want to share how they feel about the subject.

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"A mind stretched by a new idea can never go back to its original dimensions." - Oliver Wendell Holmes


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productofchoice
Post  Post subject: Re: My testimony  |  Posted: Tue Apr 19, 2016 9:10 am
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I really don't sense any "upset" going on here, not in this discussion at least.

But in some cases on this site, people may talk about how the feel like they have been lied to, taken advantage of, used and/or exploited and how it bothers them. Kevin, I suppose you would also be bothered if you thought that was happening to you, right?

Sometimes we believe what we want to believe until life comes along and brings us a forced realization. All of a sudden what worked stops working, what made sense stops making sense and we realize that it was really a lie or at least not the whole truth. That can be a hard day. But those sorts of realizations are critical to making progress and they are the kind of thing that let you get on a newer and better path.

The vast majority of the people on this site had those realizations about the Mormon church. Me? I was defending it when I found the indefensible. You can see it too if you're willing to look. You can go to LDS.ORG and look up the "Joseph Smith Papers" project and find old copies of the D&C before it became the current version of the D&C. In the earliest days it was called the "Book of Commandments" and it claimed to contain "revelations" from God through Joseph Smith. This book was later incorporated into the Doctrine and Covenants. Copies of it survived and you can see photo of and transcriptions of the text presented by the LDS Church itself. Sections of it underwent major changes when it was added to the D&C. Mormon scripture was changed between editions. I'm not talking about new revelations being added but old ones getting modified. How do you defend that?

And you can see that up until a couple of years before Brigham Young's death the D&C contained a section denying the crime of polygamy and yet Brigham and many, many others had many, many wives. Hello Brigham ... can you say, "STOP THE PRESS!" ? Come on, members are carrying scripture that contradicts practice and the contents of the current section 132 was suppressed and hidden. By the Oath and Covenant of the priesthood in D&C 121, "Amen to the priesthood authority of that man." According the recent articles of published by the Mormon church and posted on LDS.org and referred to in leaders from headquarters to be read from the stand and studied by CES leaders, Joseph Smith had many wives himself and the earliest was long before D&C section 132 was ever penned or temple marriage was revealed and the process was done behind Emma's back and not in alignment with the rules presented in Section 132. They were not virgins and they were not ok'ed by Emma. In addition, the Old Testament spoke out against marrying a Mother and her daughter. It also spoke out against marrying sisters ... and we all know what happens when you marry another man's wife. Study the life of Mary Elizabeth Lightner Rollins and see what you find out.

Or you may see where in the Joseph Smith history
JST 1:41 wrote:
41 He also quoted the second chapter of Joel, from the twenty-eighth verse to the last. He also said that this was not yet fulfilled, but was soon to be. And he further stated that the fulness of the Gentiles was soon to come in. He quoted many other passages of scripture, and offered many explanations which cannot be mentioned here.

which is rather important. In Acts 2 when the Holy Spirit is poured out, Peter declares that this is the fulfillment of what was spoken of in Joel. The whole NT and early church is based on this. Jesus promised it. Joseph Smith claims it didn't happen. JST does not revise this out. If the LDS church is a restored gospel of a church without power, one from before the HS was poured out, what does that say about it now? This is important stuff think on it because it's a big theological issue. If the LDS church is a restored gospel, what Gospel was it restored to? A pre-cross Gospel? A pre-Holy Spirit gospel? And what, if any of the epistles (second half of the NT) apply to the LDS? This is critical foundational stuff, think on it.

And that's just the tip of the iceberg, all based on things you can find on LDS.ORG and in lds scripture ... no "anti-Mormon" stuff there because when I was doing my research I was very careful where I looked and what I trusted. I checked references. I bought a copy of the "History of the Church" and Mormon Doctrine. I didn't want to get fooled by someone on the outside.

Do your own research. Look below the surface. Check references. If you're right and the LDS church is true, it will strengthen your testimony. Truth need not fear challenges, they only serve to show how true it is. Lies fear challenges because they expose them.

Peace

_________________
I resigned from the Church of THE Jesus Christ of the Latter Day Saints (Feb 2011)

"For nothing is secret, that shall not be made manifest; neither any thing hid, that shall not be known and come abroad." - Luke 8:17


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richkelsey.org
Post  Post subject: Re: My testimony  |  Posted: Tue Apr 19, 2016 11:54 am
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I think some of us, including me, have been missing the point of this thread. It is not and never was suppose to be a back and forth discussion, looking into facts and weighing the evidence on whether Mormonism is true or not.

It is a thread showing that we individually, and as a group; are,

"... upset about what others believe."

And, basically an admonition for us to change our attitudes; because Mormons,

"... aren't hurting ... [us] by believing in The Book of Mormon."

While the bible exhorts people to,

"earnestly contend for the faith which was once delivered unto the saints." (Jude, 1:3)

The theme of this thread is to let us know that we should not contend for the faith, whatsoever.

And, apparently we are haters for desiring to,

"Prove all things." (1 Thess. 5:21)

From here on, I would like to see some substance in the message, instead of baseless allegations, meaningless testimony; and, diversion tactics.

Yet, perhaps I have again forgotten, that this thread is not and never was suppose to be a back and forth discussion, looking into facts and weighing the evidence on whether Mormonism is true or not.

One thing is certain: Like all the Elders who came by my house in 2014, not one quote from LDS.org that we looked into was ever discussed; they were all labeled "speculation" and replaced with testimony, so far, what I see here is more of the same.
_______

Documentation on the 2014 Elder discussions: http://richkelsey.org/cognitive_dissonance.html


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productofchoice
Post  Post subject: Re: My testimony  |  Posted: Tue Apr 19, 2016 12:18 pm
God

Joined: Wed Apr 06, 2011 12:49 pm
Posts: 2801
Location: NC

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You aren't wrong Rich.

The thing is that Mormons seek to proselyte people to their cause.
So why be so bothered when people are pulled away from their cause?
Is it only fair to take and not give?

Peace

_________________
I resigned from the Church of THE Jesus Christ of the Latter Day Saints (Feb 2011)

"For nothing is secret, that shall not be made manifest; neither any thing hid, that shall not be known and come abroad." - Luke 8:17


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