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Klaus1787
Post  Post subject: FIRM Foundation  |  Posted: Sun Feb 14, 2016 5:41 pm
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Recently, I heard on talk radio a member of the FIRM Foundation, which I had never read or heard of, claiming all kinds of evidence which "proved" The Book of Mormon to be true and authentic. Some of the arguments he used were that pre-Columbian horses had been found in Wyoming and the La Brea Tar pits which "corroborated" TBOM. I knew that his claims were a total lie and I told him so. The Wyoming horse was actually of the species Equus Caballus which is the horse species which had been domesticated in Europe and brought over by the Spaniards. The La Brea horse species was Equus Simplicidens the youngest example there had died about 7000 years ago and resembled the zebra and donkey and could not be a modern horse as the FIRM representative claimed. This man also claimed that small stone carvings with Hebrew writing were found in the Hopewell mounds during the 1800s and thus proved that these people were the Nephites. I told him that these carvings were hoaxes and frauds. He also claimed that sheep and pigs were found in these mounds but since I had been cut off, I could not respond to this liar.

Fortunately, at the beginning of my call, I stated that FIRM was an acronym for False Information Regarding Mormonism.


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productofchoice
Post  Post subject: Re: FIRM Foundation  |  Posted: Sun Feb 14, 2016 8:54 pm
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I see this article floating around facebook alot:
http://ldsmag.com/major-announcement-om ... bountiful/

I suppose it's a smart move. What could they find that would damage Mormonism? What could they find that would prove it? If nothing is there then, "Well maybe we found the wrong place." and if anything from that era is found then it's confirmation.

Though the great question I have is this. There is a site that is much closer, 700 years more recent, more used by more people with prophetic confirmation and owned? by the church ... the Hill Camorah. Why not dig there and find the remains of the Nephite civilization?

Peace

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I resigned from the Church of THE Jesus Christ of the Latter Day Saints (Feb 2011)

"For nothing is secret, that shall not be made manifest; neither any thing hid, that shall not be known and come abroad." - Luke 8:17


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Abinadi
Post  Post subject: Re: FIRM Foundation  |  Posted: Mon Feb 15, 2016 6:25 pm
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I look forward to reports form the Nephi-Bountiful exercise.
Quote:
In describing Bountiful where he built the ship, Nephi gives us specific details, including that it is a place on the seashore accessible from the high desert, directly east of Nahom, a place of much fruit and honey and a place with significant timber.
My idea of what constitutes "specific details" has long been at odds with what Mormons consider "details". Well, maybe they'll find a rock with a "N" and a "p" and a "h" on it - nph. That will "prove" Nephi was there, as the carving nhhm likewise "proves" (in their dreams) that Lehi was where that word was found.

The Book of Mormon is painfully short on details of any sort. Clothes, crowns, scrolls, weapons, animals, everything. A horse is a horse of course unless that horse has some "specific details" identifying its breed, color, height, etc. No details on horses. No details on writing system. No details on locations. None. Makes me so upset that I used to think the details were pretty good; all we had to do was overlay it all on a modern map and we'd see exactly where everything was. That was back when I thought Lehi had come to America. Now I realize he went to Malaysia, so things fit together better now.

:D :D :D


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Abinadi
Post  Post subject: Re: FIRM Foundation  |  Posted: Mon Feb 15, 2016 6:43 pm
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Quote:
The question that matters most of all is almost too tantalizing to ask. Did Nephi and Lehi leave anything behind that can indicate that they were here? At first, the answer would seem to be ‘no.’ They were here perhaps two to four years preparing all things and building this ship, not long enough it seems to have left their mark. That’s what we all assumed, but when Warren Aston gave Richard Hauck a drawing of the remains of one particular structure on the western side of the Khor, he was thunderstruck. Hauck had extensively studied Solomon’s Temple, the Tabernacle in the Wilderness, and similar structures in Central America, so he recognized immediately what he was looking at. He had eyes to see what no other casual observer could have noticed. What was drawn was the outline of a sanctuary for worship with an architectural footprint and a layout that correlated directly with Solomon’s Temple. It appears in every way to be the remains of a Hebrew sanctuary. In that trip and the ones to follow to Khor Kharfot, Hauck carefully studied the specific site where this drawing had been made.
Wow. Imagine that. a place resembling places for worship that had previously been found in Israel, Central America, and elsewhere in the world. Who would have thought they would have found another one in the Middle East again, in Oman?

The people of the Middle East got their architectural designs basically from Egypt and Sumer. The Babylonians followed Sumer in many respects. The Jews tended to borrow more heavily from Egypt with which they were obviously more familiar.

Fortunately, the land has not changed during the 2,600 years since Nephi was there, so naturally where he allegedly saw "much fruit and honey," was able to get timber suitable for ship-building, "year-round fresh water," "substantial cliffs," and other awkward silliness, it must all still be there. So the Mormon researchers did not bother to look for a place that fit in every detail except perhaps it had become barren of bees and the fresh-water had drained out or turned brackish over the ensuing millenia, or the trees had died out. And they accepted the presence of trees, bees, and fresh water as evidence that there were trees, bees and fresh water in the same place two thousand years ago.

They should focus more on the text of the Book of Mormon itself. The words of that book are the book's own testament regarding its reliability as a tool for fruitful archaeological discovery.


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productofchoice
Post  Post subject: Re: FIRM Foundation  |  Posted: Tue Feb 16, 2016 8:56 am
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It frustrates me to read the assumptions and the hope that the digs create. It's not true. It's a waste of time and it gives false hope to people who cling to the lies.

I was reading the reviews and only one person seemed to have any clue:
Quote:
Joseph SmithFebruary 12, 2016

Great Story. Got to see how this plays out. Best of luck to them. Now if someone could get permission to dig near Hill Cumorah to see if battles actually took place there or if the " Land of Desolation is in South America that would be great!!


May a few will get the idea that thousands of miles closer with no language or cultural barriers lies a hill that has been identified as "The" hill where hundreds of thousands of Nephi's descendants died at 800 years more recently. Surely knocking down those barriers would be easier WRT finding a real dig and real artifacts.

But they are intentionally avoiding the more likely and local digs and I think it speaks to leadership knowing it's all bull-poop.

Finding something Jewish-ish a few hundred miles from Jersualem is from the days when the Jews wondered that area is .... well is not any proof.

Peace

_________________
I resigned from the Church of THE Jesus Christ of the Latter Day Saints (Feb 2011)

"For nothing is secret, that shall not be made manifest; neither any thing hid, that shall not be known and come abroad." - Luke 8:17


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Tickingclocker
Post  Post subject: Re: FIRM Foundation  |  Posted: Tue May 31, 2016 6:42 pm
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Abinadi wrote:
...Now I realize he went to Malaysia, so things fit together better now. :D :D :D


LOL!! You made me laugh today! Good one!

How much DNA mud can they discover in the Pacific when they gradually maneuver their theory there instead of upon the firmly uncooperative Native Americans shoulders? Maybe a few millions strains--of every nation that has traveled across it for centuries while trading, mixing, slaving, conquering?

I can see it all now.....


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