View unanswered posts
View active topics
It is currently Fri May 26, 2017 3:19 am


Author Message
Abinadi
Post  Post subject: Mormon Church Abandons Book of Mormon  |  Posted: Mon Jan 25, 2016 5:19 pm
User avatar
MODERATOR

Joined: Thu Mar 13, 2008 12:23 am
Posts: 7870
Location: D&C 121:39

Offline
Joseph Smith claimed the Book of Mormon to be the most correct book on earth. Can a book of purported history be "most correct" without being a literal history? Odd question perhaps. When I was growing up, we were assured many times that the Book of Mormon is a literal history of the inhabitants of the Americas. As I do a bing-search for "Book of Mormon" and "literal history", particularly at the website lds.org, I come up with nothing. I can find no official statement that the Book of Mormon is literal other than that it is a "literal translation" which is different from being "literal truth".

The RLDS Church, now Community of Christ, gave up the literacy claim decades ago. They consider the Book of Mormon more of a romance, or inspired allegory of some sort.

Now the Mormon Church itself seems to be backstepping from claims of "most accurate", "literal history", and even "most correct book."

At lds.net, admittedly not an "official" Mormon site (lds.org itself carries caveats that much of what is there is the opinion of the speaker/writer rather than the official position of the Church), an enterprising apologist writes:
Quote:
It is much more than an historical account; it is also an allegory—a symbolic story featuring the following characters:

Nephi, representing Jesus Christ
Laban, representing Satan
Zoram, representing each of us

So why did Nephi have to kill Laban? I still don’t have a complete answer to that question, but that is not the essential question.
(http://lds.net/blog/featured/nephi-and-laban/?utm_source=lds.net+users&utm_campaign=7c90b4f041-Newsletter_Jan_14_2016&utm_medium=email&utm_term=0_608611419d-7c90b4f041-86329749)
"an allegory" - really. Poor, John W. Welch, a Mormon attorney who attempted to defend Nephi by misreading and distorting Jewish laws to make it seem Nephi was following prescribed steps, and that Laban had brought doom upon himself by specifc acts for which Jewish law demanded death. Wells even sought to justify the manner of Laban's execution. There is no justification in Jewish law, but what Mormon would bother to look that up after a fellow Mormon had accommodated their established prejudice on the case.

There seems to be another slight conundrum. One person wrote:
Quote:
Some people have incorrectly felt that the Spirit of the Lord has prompted them to do something contrary to what the Lord has already commanded, such as was the case with Nephi. Today we need not worry that the Lord might prompt us to do something that runs contrary to current commandments. President Harold B. Lee (1899–1973) has taught us who the Lord will give such promptings to: “When there is to be anything different from that which the Lord has told us already, He will reveal it to His prophet and no one else” (Stand Ye in Holy Places [1974], 159).
But the Book of Mormon says that Nephi committed the murder when Jeremiah the Prophet was on earth (if I am reading the text correctly). So did Jeremiah tell Nephi to kill Laban? And might Monson tell Oaks to kill Donald Trump? I'm not sure I trust "prophets" much more than I trust anyone else, although some of them may have the potential to inspire me to genuinely virtuous deeds.


Top
KCExmoAdmin
Post  Post subject: Re: Mormon Church Abandons Book of Mormon  |  Posted: Tue Jan 26, 2016 12:01 pm
Nursery

Joined: Tue Jun 30, 2015 11:38 am
Posts: 7
Location: Kansas City Region

Offline
The publication of Native American DNA results (...and a host of other issues), certainly would cause church leadership to 'back pedal' their stance. But, my observation is that the Top 15 accomplish the back pedaling not by making overt statements, but rather by insuring the historical accuracy issues are never mentioned again in General Conference. They simply let time pass, and hope it fades away.


Top
teoma2
Post  Post subject: Re: Mormon Church Abandons Book of Mormon  |  Posted: Tue Jan 26, 2016 5:44 pm
God of Mythbusters

Joined: Sat Feb 28, 2009 8:30 am
Posts: 4722
Location: Kolobian Lowlands

Offline
Sliding back and avoiding any controversy helps keep the apparition intact.

_________________
"When authority masquerades as a power, a simple question will unmask it."

"Just because you think, feel, or believe something is true, doesn't make it true!"

"The doubt of your faith, is not God testing you, but truth trying to emerge and free you."


Top
productofchoice
Post  Post subject: Re: Mormon Church Abandons Book of Mormon  |  Posted: Tue Jan 26, 2016 7:28 pm
God

Joined: Wed Apr 06, 2011 12:49 pm
Posts: 2765
Location: NC

Offline
Surface Calm.
Under the surface spending and money laundering.

Peace

_________________
I resigned from the Church of THE Jesus Christ of the Latter Day Saints (Feb 2011)

"For nothing is secret, that shall not be made manifest; neither any thing hid, that shall not be known and come abroad." - Luke 8:17


Top
richkelsey.org
Post  Post subject: Issues With My Mental Health:  |  Posted: Thu Jan 28, 2016 8:30 pm
User avatar
God of Elves, Seer Stones and a Hat

Joined: Fri Aug 21, 2009 7:57 pm
Posts: 1461
Location: Bellevue, WA

Offline
Abinadi wrote:
Joseph Smith claimed the Book of Mormon to be the most correct book on earth. Can a book of purported history be "most correct" without being a literal history? Odd question perhaps. When I was growing up, we were assured many times that the Book of Mormon is a literal history of the inhabitants of the Americas. As I do a bing-search for "Book of Mormon" and "literal history", particularly at the website lds.org, I come up with nothing. I can find no official statement that the Book of Mormon is literal other than that it is a "literal translation" which is different from being "literal truth".

The RLDS Church, now Community of Christ, gave up the literacy claim decades ago. They consider the Book of Mormon more of a romance, or inspired allegory of some sort.

Now the Mormon Church itself seems to be backstepping from claims of "most accurate", "literal history", and even "most correct book."

At lds.net, admittedly not an "official" Mormon site (lds.org itself carries caveats that much of what is there is the opinion of the speaker/writer rather than the official position of the Church), an enterprising apologist writes:
Quote:
It is much more than an historical account; it is also an allegory—a symbolic story featuring the following characters:

Nephi, representing Jesus Christ
Laban, representing Satan
Zoram, representing each of us

So why did Nephi have to kill Laban? I still don’t have a complete answer to that question, but that is not the essential question.
(http://lds.net/blog/featured/nephi-and-laban/?utm_source=lds.net+users&utm_campaign=7c90b4f041-Newsletter_Jan_14_2016&utm_medium=email&utm_term=0_608611419d-7c90b4f041-86329749)
"an allegory" - really. Poor, John W. Welch, a Mormon attorney who attempted to defend Nephi by misreading and distorting Jewish laws to make it seem Nephi was following prescribed steps, and that Laban had brought doom upon himself by specifc acts for which Jewish law demanded death. Wells even sought to justify the manner of Laban's execution. There is no justification in Jewish law, but what Mormon would bother to look that up after a fellow Mormon had accommodated their established prejudice on the case.

There seems to be another slight conundrum. One person wrote:
Quote:
Some people have incorrectly felt that the Spirit of the Lord has prompted them to do something contrary to what the Lord has already commanded, such as was the case with Nephi. Today we need not worry that the Lord might prompt us to do something that runs contrary to current commandments. President Harold B. Lee (1899–1973) has taught us who the Lord will give such promptings to: “When there is to be anything different from that which the Lord has told us already, He will reveal it to His prophet and no one else” (Stand Ye in Holy Places [1974], 159).
But the Book of Mormon says that Nephi committed the murder when Jeremiah the Prophet was on earth (if I am reading the text correctly). So did Jeremiah tell Nephi to kill Laban? And might Monson tell Oaks to kill Donald Trump? I'm not sure I trust "prophets" much more than I trust anyone else, although some of them may have the potential to inspire me to genuinely virtuous deeds.

Visit With My Doctor:

(Dr.): "So, Rich, 'How are you doing?'"

(Rich): "Um, Obviously I'm in the middle of a crisis or I wouldn't be here."

(Dr.): "I'm looking over your charts; I don't see any history of mental illness."

(Dr.): "Tell me Rich, 'What's going on?"

(Rich): "It's the Mormons; They're changing the rules again!"

(Rich): "Recently the Church admitted that Joseph Smith used a seer-stone to translate the Book of Mormon; and now, they are implying that the Book of Mormon is allegorical, rather than being a historical record."

(Dr.): "Why is that troubling you?"

(Rich): "Because of those recent admissions, 'my life's work is all in vain.'"

(Dr.): "You need stability right now Rich; with everything around you changing, you need something solid to hold onto."

(Rich): "So, in other words, this would not be a good time for me to become a Mormon?"

_________________
My LDS Series:
http://www.richkelsey.org/lds_index.html
Rich Kelsey


Top
smartenough
Post  Post subject: Re: Mormon Church Abandons Book of Mormon  |  Posted: Fri Jan 29, 2016 3:17 pm
High Priest

Joined: Tue Dec 27, 2011 3:28 pm
Posts: 322
Location: New England

Offline
NO, I guess that this would not be a good time to become a Mormon. When was there ever a good time to become a Mormon??

I am just wondering if the Church plans to do some more editing to the most correct book on Earth anytime soon.


Top
Abinadi
Post  Post subject: Re: Issues With My Mental Health:  |  Posted: Tue Feb 02, 2016 5:13 pm
User avatar
MODERATOR

Joined: Thu Mar 13, 2008 12:23 am
Posts: 7870
Location: D&C 121:39

Offline
richkelsey.org wrote:
.....
(Rich): "So, in other words, this would not be a good time for me to become a Mormon?"
Image


Top
leftasteen
Post  Post subject: Re: Mormon Church Abandons Book of Mormon  |  Posted: Thu Mar 17, 2016 9:49 am
Sunbeam

Joined: Thu Dec 11, 2014 12:13 pm
Posts: 40

Offline
As a youth, I remember being required to memorize the "Articles of Faith." As I recall one of them went something like this:

"We believe the Book of Mormon to be true, as far as it is translated correctly."


I might be off a bit, but how could you possibly drill that into young minds for decades, then "walk it back."

In my opinion, this is a great example of the "All or Nothing" trap the LDS Church put itself into. If you really understand the foundation and formation of the church, there is no denying:

It's either ALL TRUE and you're foolish to question anything, or IT'S ALL A PILE OF MADE UP CRAP.

There really is no middle ground, and those who claim there is are feeding themselves a convenient lie.


Top
teoma2
Post  Post subject: Re: Mormon Church Abandons Book of Mormon  |  Posted: Fri Mar 18, 2016 10:41 am
God of Mythbusters

Joined: Sat Feb 28, 2009 8:30 am
Posts: 4722
Location: Kolobian Lowlands

Offline
This cult evolves as the social conditions change, Leftasteen. The Internet has ramped up the ante now, as the new younger members who leave will continue to change the future of TSCC.

Need to remember, that the real ultimate power, the overall ultimate control, resides in the membership, not in the Fossil 15. And when that changes, so will TSCC. Kind of slow to watch, but its happening right this moment. The handlers of old, are scrambling to adjust to these changes, attempting to 'Innoculate" the youth slowly, with new 'Updated' printing, so as not to lose the next up and coming members.


In real life, our internet works a lot faster than that.

_________________
"When authority masquerades as a power, a simple question will unmask it."

"Just because you think, feel, or believe something is true, doesn't make it true!"

"The doubt of your faith, is not God testing you, but truth trying to emerge and free you."


Top
JonMinLoganUtah
Post  Post subject: Re: Mormon Church Abandons Book of Mormon  |  Posted: Sat Mar 19, 2016 12:21 pm
User avatar
Nursery

Joined: Thu Mar 17, 2016 4:59 pm
Posts: 12
Location: Logan, Utah

Offline
leftasteen wrote:
As a youth, I remember being required to memorize the "Articles of Faith." As I recall one of them went something like this:

"We believe the Book of Mormon to be true, as far as it is translated correctly."


I might be off a bit, but how could you possibly drill that into young minds for decades, then "walk it back."

In my opinion, this is a great example of the "All or Nothing" trap the LDS Church put itself into. If you really understand the foundation and formation of the church, there is no denying:

It's either ALL TRUE and you're foolish to question anything, or IT'S ALL A PILE OF MADE UP CRAP.

There really is no middle ground, and those who claim there is are feeding themselves a convenient lie.



Article of Faith #8.

8 We believe the Bible to be the word of God as far as it is translated correctly; we also believe the Book of Mormon to be the word of God.

So the bible could be if translated correctly.

_________________
http://www.jonathankmarshall.blogspot.com


Top
productofchoice
Post  Post subject: Re: Mormon Church Abandons Book of Mormon  |  Posted: Sun Mar 20, 2016 6:34 am
God

Joined: Wed Apr 06, 2011 12:49 pm
Posts: 2765
Location: NC

Offline
Or the BoM could be untrue if not translated correctly.

Funny that, the BoM talks alot about the "translators" that came with it and how important they were to "translating" ancient records and how important it was to preserve them. Seems really silly that the proper way of translating the BoM would be to use a shiny rock in a dark hat. Maybe that's why the BoM has gone through so many changes...

Peace

_________________
I resigned from the Church of THE Jesus Christ of the Latter Day Saints (Feb 2011)

"For nothing is secret, that shall not be made manifest; neither any thing hid, that shall not be known and come abroad." - Luke 8:17


Top
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Print view

Who is online
Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 4 guests
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
Jump to:   


Delete all board cookies | The team | All times are UTC - 7 hours [ DST ]

Powered by phpBB © phpBB Group.