View unanswered posts
View active topics
It is currently Mon Aug 21, 2017 1:43 pm


Author Message
richkelsey.org
Post  Post subject: my thoughts about who Jesus is  |  Posted: Mon Dec 21, 2015 7:44 pm
User avatar
God of Elves, Seer Stones and a Hat

Joined: Fri Aug 21, 2009 7:57 pm
Posts: 1461
Location: Bellevue, WA

Offline
Well, if anybody cares to read my thoughts about who Jesus is?

They can be had: http://richkelsey.org/jesus_christ.html

I've spent 38 years researching this subject. Obviously, I know a lot more about this topic than what I let out in this brief study.

Rich

_________________
My LDS Series:
http://www.richkelsey.org/lds_index.html
Rich Kelsey


Top
Rainfeather
Post  Post subject: Re: my thoughts about who Jesus is  |  Posted: Mon Dec 21, 2015 7:55 pm
User avatar
MODERATOR

Joined: Sun Dec 07, 2008 7:46 pm
Posts: 6224

Offline
I'll give it a read. Jesus to me has become a myth, just like Hercules, Zeus, Mithra, etc.

_________________
"A mind stretched by a new idea can never go back to its original dimensions." - Oliver Wendell Holmes


Top
richkelsey.org
Post  Post subject: Re: my thoughts about who Jesus is  |  Posted: Mon Dec 21, 2015 8:14 pm
User avatar
God of Elves, Seer Stones and a Hat

Joined: Fri Aug 21, 2009 7:57 pm
Posts: 1461
Location: Bellevue, WA

Offline
Rainfeather wrote:
I'll give it a read. Jesus to me has become a myth, just like Hercules, Zeus, Mithra, etc.

Rainfeather!

I really like you!

_________________
My LDS Series:
http://www.richkelsey.org/lds_index.html
Rich Kelsey


Top
teoma2
Post  Post subject: Re: my thoughts about who Jesus is  |  Posted: Tue Dec 22, 2015 9:35 am
God of Mythbusters

Joined: Sat Feb 28, 2009 8:30 am
Posts: 4765
Location: Kolobian Lowlands

Offline
Ditto here Rainfeather...nothing more than great allegory.

All those legends, myths and fables rolled into whatever one wants or needs to believe. I have yet to find any man or woman able to provide credible, verifiable evidence that a god exists anywhere. But organized religions consistently make their claims, usually based on faith alone.

_________________
"When authority masquerades as a power, a simple question will unmask it."

"Just because you think, feel, or believe something is true, doesn't make it true!"

"The doubt of your faith, is not God testing you, but truth trying to emerge and free you."


Top
richkelsey.org
Post  Post subject: Re: my thoughts about who Jesus is  |  Posted: Tue Dec 22, 2015 10:00 am
User avatar
God of Elves, Seer Stones and a Hat

Joined: Fri Aug 21, 2009 7:57 pm
Posts: 1461
Location: Bellevue, WA

Offline
teoma2 wrote:
Ditto here Rainfeather...nothing more than great allegory.

All those legends, myths and fables rolled into whatever one wants or needs to believe. I have yet to find any man or woman able to provide credible, verifiable evidence that a god exists anywhere. But organized religions consistently make their claims, usually based on faith alone.

Hi temoa2.

Things are different for me. I most certainly did not "want to" or "need to" believe in God before I had a near death experience. And, I certainly did not believe in Jesus before that. I was happy being a hippie and experiencing that way of life; however the movement was fading. Then when trying to contact my dead brother, I met pure evil.

That is what put me on a search for God / Jesus Christ. Yet, it took about 7 more years before I found Jesus.

I am pretty sure that you have read about my experience. For those who have not please do a search for rich kelsey near death experience.

With me, I had a wakeup call as to what's really going on down here. As for organized religion, my life's work has been exposing many of them. I prefer non-denominational Christian churches; and, even among those, there are people who hold to false teaching. That is what my article: Who is Jesus Christ addresses. False concepts Christians have about Jesus.

In that article I show that the early church had a very different view of Christ.

Link: http://richkelsey.org/jesus_christ.html

_________________
My LDS Series:
http://www.richkelsey.org/lds_index.html
Rich Kelsey


Top
joseph's myth
Post  Post subject: my thoughts about who Jesus is  |  Posted: Tue Dec 22, 2015 4:05 pm
God of Poly-Folly

Joined: Wed Mar 12, 2008 2:29 pm
Posts: 5244

Offline
Over the past couple of years I may have begun to see Jesus in the variety of different ways Mormons might try and 'cherry pick' from a poorly instructed basis built up and built upon the Mormon basics. The spectrum is manifold as it is wide.

Personally, this Christmastime probably more than any other, I like that I live in a world forever altered by whatever it was that crossed the horizon of this world nearly 2016 years ago.

I truly enjoy and appreciate a new life not controlled by excessively overused (fgs) fear, guilt and shame promotion, Mormonism is never letting go of.

http://m.heraldscotland.com/opinion/141 ... om_tinsel/

I am sure many folks can be struggling with an absence of a full and grateful heart, I can also imagine plenty of folks accepting all of the appreciated differences Jesus the Christ personally allows then in this, their new lives.

_________________
God of Poly-Folly Folly

{If you believe in things that you don't understand, then you suffer ~Stevie Wonder}
.................. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ekkkD8HU944
........................ http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ekkkD8HU944
.................. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ekkkD8HU944


God of Poly-Folly Folly


Top
richkelsey.org
Post  Post subject: Re: my thoughts about who Jesus is  |  Posted: Tue Dec 22, 2015 5:06 pm
User avatar
God of Elves, Seer Stones and a Hat

Joined: Fri Aug 21, 2009 7:57 pm
Posts: 1461
Location: Bellevue, WA

Offline
joseph's myth wrote:
Over the past couple of years I may have begun to see Jesus in the variety of different ways Mormons might try and 'cherry pick' from a poorly instructed basis built up and built upon the Mormon basics. The spectrum is manifold as it is wide.

Personally, this Christmastime probably more than any other, I like that I live in a world forever altered by whatever it was that crossed the horizon of this world nearly 2016 years ago.

I truly enjoy and appreciate a new life not controlled by excessively overused (fgs) fear, guilt and shame promotion, Mormonism is never letting go of.

http://m.heraldscotland.com/opinion/141 ... om_tinsel/

I am sure many folks can be struggling with an absence of a full and grateful heart, I can also imagine plenty of folks accepting all of the appreciated differences Jesus the Christ personally allows then in this, their new lives.

Hi Joseph's myth.

"I can also imagine plenty of folks accepting all of the appreciated differences Jesus the Christ personally allows then in this, their new lives" (yea)

I clicked on the link you provided and read: Now is the time, this Christmas, to disentangle truth from tinsel

Wow, the man has evidently dismissed all of the miracles surrounding Christ's birth. My guess is that he no longer believes in Christ feeding the 5,000 with five loaves and two fish; and/or, the story of the demoniac and the pigs, etc.

If he goes as far as not believing in Christ's resurrection, which I am pretty sure he has "disentangled" from truth as well; then, I'm wondering why he is even a preacher? Or, a Christian for that matter?

Perhaps he enjoys church as a good social club; and, considers the "tinsel" a somewhat harmless part of the Christian faith; yet, nevertheless, a part that the more enlightened in the congregation can safely let go of.

To each their own. My troubling experience with pastors, teachers, and other church leaders has more to do with what they add to the bible than what they take away from it.

Merry Christmas,

Rich


Top
joseph's myth
Post  Post subject: my thoughts about who Jesus is  |  Posted: Wed Dec 23, 2015 5:05 am
God of Poly-Folly

Joined: Wed Mar 12, 2008 2:29 pm
Posts: 5244

Offline
Merry Christmas Rich! We hold these truths to be self evident. Maybe it is this simple, the Mormon club I found myself surrounded with wanted to add enough 'additions', with a thorough revaluation, the whole entire thing required the benefit of removal. You sometimes need to let God protect you when he's merely shielding the tresspass from your life. Yes, sometimes that 'shielding', involves crazy folks that you need not be around. Friends and even family members can be included in this crazy leagues of folks. Joe Kenda had a show on last night called Homicide Hunter. The episode included a normal guy in Colorado Springs one day rummaging through some 'stuff' in the garage of a rented property. They found his finger in the grass in the yard with the pull-pin ring still around it. He was blown to bits.

Joe Kenda then says, "Sometimes what you don't understand can kill you!", and I immediately thought of my adopted tag-line. If you believe in things (or play with things) that you don't understand, you will suffer.

Reckless Endangerment: http://jennifersnorris.com/2015/12/02/l ... o-springs/

_________________
God of Poly-Folly Folly

{If you believe in things that you don't understand, then you suffer ~Stevie Wonder}
.................. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ekkkD8HU944
........................ http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ekkkD8HU944
.................. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ekkkD8HU944


God of Poly-Folly Folly


Top
Melanie
Post  Post subject: Re: my thoughts about who Jesus is  |  Posted: Wed Dec 23, 2015 3:44 pm
myself

Joined: Sat Jun 22, 2013 4:34 pm
Posts: 1693
Location: England

Offline
Well I think that link is a brilliant article http://m.heraldscotland.com/opinion/141 ... om_tinsel/ and the authors words that ............behind this world is a love which sets a value on persons that nothing can destroy.......... is amazingly liberating. I am glad for the inclusiveness of Christ's work and that is what I think the guy is conveying here. Beauty wider than our conception of it. Like the Resurrection, the disciples were not looking for it, they were not expecting it, they were not hoping for it. And yet......... ''The God of life and love eternally with us.''

_________________
Why leave? http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=pl ... 989OOSOycw
How to heal? http://media.blubrry.com/mormonexpressi ... ion225.mp3


Top
productofchoice
Post  Post subject: Re: my thoughts about who Jesus is  |  Posted: Thu Dec 24, 2015 8:53 pm
God

Joined: Wed Apr 06, 2011 12:49 pm
Posts: 2793
Location: NC

Offline
I think about how Jesus gets introduced by John the Baptist... the Lamb of God come to take away the sins of the world.

The lamb was born on the Christmas night many years ago.

Born in the land of Joseph, Bethlehem. His homeland, where his family is from, a family that traced their lineage back to King David and the same land where that young boy king battled lions while tending flocks of sheep.

The land where the watchtower was located, Midgal Eder, the Tower of the Flock. A tower that in times of war watched for the enemy, in times of peace where shepherds would watch the flocks, the flock where the temple lambs were born. Lambs that were born to be taken to Jerusalem and killed for the sins of a nation. These lambs were to pass every test if health and purity. They were checked at the base of this tower. The healthy newborn lambs were wobbly on their legs and so would be wrapped in cloth to keep them from injuring themselves and these lambs, wrapped in strips of cloth were laid in grooves cut into the stone floors with straw, grooves that were known as mangers.

So while we don't have specific details, we do know that Joseph was unwelcome in the homes of his kin and unable to find a room in the inn... Jesus was rejected even before His birth. And it seems quite fitting and I think maybe likely that the Lamb of God was born where many temple lambs were born ... that this Great and Last sacrifice was born where so many other lesser ones were born.

And for this reason, shepherds who were told that He was to be found in a manger wrapped in swaddling cloths didn't have to ask which manger in a time where every farm had one.

So was the birth of the One who was to born to die for the sins of the world.

Peace

_________________
I resigned from the Church of THE Jesus Christ of the Latter Day Saints (Feb 2011)

"For nothing is secret, that shall not be made manifest; neither any thing hid, that shall not be known and come abroad." - Luke 8:17


Top
joseph's myth
Post  Post subject: my thoughts about who Jesus is  |  Posted: Sat Dec 26, 2015 1:15 am
God of Poly-Folly

Joined: Wed Mar 12, 2008 2:29 pm
Posts: 5244

Offline
productofchoice wrote:
I think about how Jesus gets introduced by John the Baptist... the Lamb of God come to take away the sins of the world.

The lamb was born on the Christmas night many years ago.

Born in the land of Joseph, Bethlehem. His homeland, where his family is from, a family that traced their lineage back to King David and the same land where that young boy king battled lions while tending flocks of sheep.

The land where the watchtower was located, Midgal Eder, the Tower of the Flock. A tower that in times of war watched for the enemy, in times of peace where shepherds would watch the flocks, the flock where the temple lambs were born. Lambs that were born to be taken to Jerusalem and killed for the sins of a nation. These lambs were to pass every test if health and purity. They were checked at the base of this tower. The healthy newborn lambs were wobbly on their legs and so would be wrapped in cloth to keep them from injuring themselves and these lambs, wrapped in strips of cloth were laid in grooves cut into the stone floors with straw, grooves that were known as mangers.

So while we don't have specific details, we do know that Joseph was unwelcome in the homes of his kin and unable to find a room in the inn... Jesus was rejected even before His birth. And it seems quite fitting and I think maybe likely that the Lamb of God was born where many temple lambs were born ... that this Great and Last sacrifice was born where so many other lesser ones were born.

And for this reason, shepherds who were told that He was to be found in a manger wrapped in swaddling cloths didn't have to ask which manger in a time where every farm had one.

So was the birth of the One who was to born to die for the sins of the world.

Peace


This all has the assurance of structural adherence of the perfectly balanced life Jesus would own. One we at times benefit to realize fits greater needs of where our unmet wants may wander. Sometimes though, I just simply need for Jesus the Christ to perfectly meet a broken man where he will land. That broken man is me.

_________________
God of Poly-Folly Folly

{If you believe in things that you don't understand, then you suffer ~Stevie Wonder}
.................. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ekkkD8HU944
........................ http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ekkkD8HU944
.................. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ekkkD8HU944


God of Poly-Folly Folly


Top
Melanie
Post  Post subject: Re: my thoughts about who Jesus is  |  Posted: Sat Dec 26, 2015 1:59 pm
myself

Joined: Sat Jun 22, 2013 4:34 pm
Posts: 1693
Location: England

Offline
joseph's myth wrote:
Sometimes though, I just simply need for Jesus the Christ to perfectly meet a broken man where he will land. That broken man is me.


Wow Joey, Breathtakingly succinct. Powerful.
And a friend sent me this on Christmas morning:


If only I were a goose...... Why Jesus, why come as a man? Christianity as a religion is a good way to live, has a great moral and ethical code but why Jesus why? Why? Why? What a funny kind of God Christianity put forward. What kind of God is it that leaves Heaven, abandons all that power and might ‐ and comes to us as a tiny new born baby? A human child, the most helpless and vulnerable of all creatures. Why would God do that? Not a bad question to be thinking of at this time of year. It’s the kind of question that comes up at Alpha again and again. I heard a story years ago which I think speaks into this question. Once long ago, there was a man who didn't believe in God. When his wife and children left for the Christmas family nativity at church one snowy Christmas Eve, he shook his head and muttered "that story is complete nonsense! Why would God, the Supreme Being, the creator of everything lower Himself to come to Earth as a man? It's ridiculous!" Shortly after his family had left, the winds grew stronger and the snowfall turned into a first‐class blizzard. As the man gazed out the window, all he could see was swirling snow. So he put more logs on the fire and settled down to enjoy the evening with a good book. But then he heard a loud thump. Something had hit the window and then he heard another thump. He went outside to see what could have been making the sounds. In the field near his house, was a flock of wild geese. Apparently they'd been flying south for the winter when they got caught in the snowstorm and couldn't go on. They were lost and stranded, with no food or shelter. They just flapped their wings and flew around the field in low circles, blindly and aimlessly. Several of them had flown into his window and were injured. The man felt sorry for the geese and wanted to help them. He had a warm barn that would make a safe refuge for them until the storm passed. So he walked out to the barn and opened the doors wide ‐ hoping they'd notice and fly inside. But the geese just fluttered around and didn't seem to see the barn at all. The man tried to get their attention, but that just seemed to scare them and they moved further away. So he went and got some bread and made a trail of breadcrumbs leading to the barn, but the geese still didn't catch on. Now he was getting frustrated. He got behind them and tried to shoo the geese toward the barn, but they only got more scared and scattered in every direction except, of course, toward the barn. Nothing he did could get them to go into the barn where they would be warm and safe. He was about to give up when he thought to himself ‐ "If only I were a goose, then I could save them. They would understand that I was trying to help them." Then he had an idea. He went into the barn and got one of his own geese. Once he was behind the flock of wild geese, he released his goose who immediately flew through the flock and straight into the barn ‐ and one by one every one of the wild geese followed. The man thought about what had just happened. The geese needed another goose to save them ‐ they could trust another goose ‐ they could understand another goose ‐ but not a human being. He thought back to his earlier remarks when his wife and children had left for church: "Why would God want to be like us? It's ridiculous." Suddenly it all made sense. We were like the geese ‐ blind, lost, and stumbling around. So God became like us so that we could trust God, and understand just how much God loved us and wanted to save us. That was the meaning of Christmas! As the winds and snow died down, the man's soul became quiet and filled with a peace he'd never known before ‐ years of doubt and disbelief vanished like the passing storm and he spoke his first prayer since he'd been a child, "Thank you, God, for coming as a man to lead me out of the storm!" What an amazing God, to give up everything and become a man (Philippians 2v6‐11) to lead me, us, everyone who trusts him back to the Father. This is a God worth shouting about.

Happy Feast of St Stephen

_________________
Why leave? http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=pl ... 989OOSOycw
How to heal? http://media.blubrry.com/mormonexpressi ... ion225.mp3


Top
joseph's myth
Post  Post subject: my thoughts about who Jesus is  |  Posted: Mon Dec 28, 2015 11:16 am
God of Poly-Folly

Joined: Wed Mar 12, 2008 2:29 pm
Posts: 5244

Offline
Melanie wrote:
joseph's myth wrote:
Sometimes though, I just simply need for Jesus the Christ to perfectly meet a broken man where he will land. That broken man is me.



If only I were a goose...... Why Jesus, why come as a man? Christianity as a religion is a good way to live, has a great moral and ethical code but why Jesus why? Why? Why? What a funny kind of God Christianity put forward. What kind of God is it that leaves Heaven, abandons all that power and might ‐ and comes to us as a tiny new born baby? A human child, the most helpless and vulnerable of all creatures. Why would God do that? Not a bad question to be thinking of at this time of year. It’s the kind of question that comes up at Alpha again and again. I heard a story years ago which I think speaks into this question.

Once long ago, there was a man who didn't believe in God. When his wife and children left for the Christmas family nativity at church one snowy Christmas Eve, he shook his head and muttered "that story is complete nonsense! Why would God, the Supreme Being, the creator of everything lower Himself to come to Earth as a man? It's ridiculous!" Shortly after his family had left, the winds grew stronger and the snowfall turned into a first‐class blizzard. As the man gazed out the window, all he could see was swirling snow. So he put more logs on the fire and settled down to enjoy the evening with a good book. But then he heard a loud thump. Something had hit the window and then he heard another thump. He went outside to see what could have been making the sounds. In the field near his house, was a flock of wild geese. Apparently they'd been flying south for the winter when they got caught in the snowstorm and couldn't go on. They were lost and stranded, with no food or shelter. They just flapped their wings and flew around the field in low circles, blindly and aimlessly. Several of them had flown into his window and were injured. The man felt sorry for the geese and wanted to help them. He had a warm barn that would make a safe refuge for them until the storm passed. So he walked out to the barn and opened the doors wide ‐ hoping they'd notice and fly inside. But the geese just fluttered around and didn't seem to see the barn at all. The man tried to get their attention, but that just seemed to scare them and they moved further away. So he went and got some bread and made a trail of breadcrumbs leading to the barn, but the geese still didn't catch on. Now he was getting frustrated. He got behind them and tried to shoo the geese toward the barn, but they only got more scared and scattered in every direction except, of course, toward the barn. Nothing he did could get them to go into the barn where they would be warm and safe.

He was about to give up when he thought to himself ‐ "If only I were a goose, then I could save them. They would understand that I was trying to help them." Then he had an idea. He went into the barn and got one of his own geese. Once he was behind the flock of wild geese, he released his goose who immediately flew through the flock and straight into the barn ‐ and one by one every one of the wild geese followed. The man thought about what had just happened. The geese needed another goose to save them ‐ they could trust another goose ‐ they could understand another goose ‐ but not a human being. He thought back to his earlier remarks when his wife and children had left for church: "Why would God want to be like us? It's ridiculous." Suddenly it all made sense. We were like the geese ‐ blind, lost, and stumbling around. So God became like us so that we could trust God, and understand just how much God loved us and wanted to save us. That was the meaning of Christmas!


As the winds and snow died down, the man's soul became quiet and filled with a peace he'd never known before ‐ years of doubt and disbelief vanished like the passing storm and he spoke his first prayer since he'd been a child, "Thank you, God, for coming as a man to lead me out of the storm!" What an amazing God, to give up everything and become a man (Philippians 2v6‐11) to lead me, us, everyone who trusts him back to the Father. This is a God worth shouting about.

Happy Feast of St Stephen


The swirling winds that now seems to maybe surround Mormonism will one day slow down.

Geese are quite noisy creatures and in this case maybe teachers, or maybe even preachers. Y'see, the farmers flock was no doubt squawking in the storm. (like they always do) And the squawk of birds like geese or ducks penetrates fog and rain and snow like no other sound. It does not echo in valleys or off of rock walls. The bird knows to always trust the direction it is coming from. The geese in this scenario knew some geese were safe and close by but were not sure of the last click to complete their puzzle. The farmer knew how to help complete the confounding puzzle for the geese.

Beautifully simple comparison you have there Melanie.

_________________
God of Poly-Folly Folly

{If you believe in things that you don't understand, then you suffer ~Stevie Wonder}
.................. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ekkkD8HU944
........................ http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ekkkD8HU944
.................. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ekkkD8HU944


God of Poly-Folly Folly


Top
Chone
Post  Post subject: Re: my thoughts about who Jesus is  |  Posted: Fri Jan 01, 2016 12:28 am
CTR B

Joined: Sat Apr 30, 2011 4:38 pm
Posts: 85

Offline
Rainfeather wrote:
I'll give it a read. Jesus to me has become a myth, just like Hercules, Zeus, Mithra, etc.


I am with you on this one Rainfeather

Going by the Jesus story when he was around and for long after his death he was not known as Jesus but as his Jewish name Yeshua.

If he were to return today why would his Greek adopted name stand?
Why did he use the name Jesus to the Nephites ?

Nephi 11:8 He told them he was Jesus Christ, the one the prophets had said would come.
Why would he call himself Jesus? Why would the Nephites record his name as Jesus if their native tongue was Hebrew?

The French philosopher, historian, and religious scholar Ernest Renan stated in his book, The Life of Jesus, that the Savior was never called Jesus in His lifetime. Renan based his conclusion on his archaeological trips to the Holy Land in searching for inspiration and materials on the Savior.

http://www.plim.org/JesusOrigin.htm


Modern Christianity has also over the years made the image of him to be that of a light skinned fair haired person to fit in better with a more western looking lifestyle. Mormons seem to have him as being a red head.

http://realhistoryww.com/world_history/ ... /Jesus.htm

Yes Jesus has been over the years successfully twisted and adjusted to be todays Myth both in name and appearance. The story took hold and became what it is today and a lot of obvious errors made in the story are purposely overlooked.


Top
joseph's myth
Post  Post subject: my thoughts about who Jesus is  |  Posted: Fri Jan 01, 2016 9:08 am
God of Poly-Folly

Joined: Wed Mar 12, 2008 2:29 pm
Posts: 5244

Offline
Chone wrote:

Why did he use the name Jesus to the Nephites ?

Nephi 11:8 He told them he was Jesus Christ, the one the prophets had said would come.
Why would he call himself Jesus? Why would the Nephites record his name as Jesus if their native tongue was Hebrew?



Nephite? Ooookay-Doookeey.

_________________
God of Poly-Folly Folly

{If you believe in things that you don't understand, then you suffer ~Stevie Wonder}
.................. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ekkkD8HU944
........................ http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ekkkD8HU944
.................. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ekkkD8HU944


God of Poly-Folly Folly


Top
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Print view

Who is online
Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
Jump to:   


Delete all board cookies | The team | All times are UTC - 7 hours [ DST ]

Powered by phpBB © phpBB Group.