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9camsti
Post  Post subject: The October Surprise is here!  |  Posted: Mon Feb 10, 2014 12:12 pm
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When I first saw the suit action against the Church by Tom Phillips and company my first reaction was major disappointment. I didn't see how any court, Europe or America would take on an issue regarding religious beliefs. Then, I thought about it over the weekend and I see absolute genius in the suit. Christianity has always been faith based, there is some evidence of Jesus Christ but salvation has always been based on the intangible. LDS Inc however is different, and if this suit is successful which I believe it could be, it will set a precedence for faith based vs outright fraud. The Church has always said salvation comes through belief in Joseph Smith as a prophet, the truthfulness and faith in the BoM, D&C and POGP and support and belief of all prophets and a 10% tithe on its baptized members. In return you get exaltation, not just salvation, but exaltation...the honor of living the eternities in the presence of God and of course create worlds with you multiple wives (woman wont be creating any worlds of course, just supporting their husband in doing so). Those things you have to believe are tangible and according to LDS Inc absolute fact!
Those fact can be and have been proven false yet the Church continues to extort money for salvation based on tangible false facts.
This is a case that needs to be heard if not just for the poor LDS drones who follow without question the lies of LDS Inc but for the many other Faiths that extort their members for cash in return for eternal salvation based on lies! If those lies can be proven false, and at LDS Inc they can and will be in a court of law, it could change the face of true Christianity and make it truly faith based and a relationship between you and your God, however you may interpret that.
Just my thoughts.....


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teoma2
Post  Post subject: Re: The October Surprise is here!  |  Posted: Tue Feb 11, 2014 10:07 am
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Most certainly, this action is very interesting. And now that it's gone public, it merits watching further, and as to the press there, they doesn't treat religion with kid gloves like here in the US. And with the prophet facing fraud now, maybe the media blitz will continue to give this the internet coverage that it finally deserves.

Since we do have some UK members here like Lilly, Scousette, and some others, how is the local media there involved? Anything in your local news lately about this? I would like to think that the Sun and others would jump all over this.

This action may provide some degree of closure for some members here. And I feel that is a good thing. However, I also feel that the judges there in the UK will be afraid of opening Pandora's Box and taking a peek inside.

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"When authority masquerades as a power, a simple question will unmask it."

"Just because you think, feel, or believe something is true, doesn't make it true!"

"The doubt of your faith, is not God testing you, but truth trying to emerge and free you."


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Scousette
Post  Post subject: Re: The October Surprise is here!  |  Posted: Tue Feb 11, 2014 5:21 pm
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Joined: Thu Nov 10, 2011 12:42 pm
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I was delighted :-D to hear about the summons to Monson to appear before the magistrates but I only found out about it when I was browsing Mormon Curtain last night. I'm not aware of any media coverage so far but I only take newspapers on Saturdays. There was a piece in the Daily Telegraph around the time the information was laid for the summons to be issued and it's likely to attract more attention as the hearing approaches - Phillips is media savvy no doubt. I'm loving the audacity of all this - lobbing a summons at Monson's a genius idea to get the light shone on lds finances. I used to be a fraud investigator and I doubt this will make it out of the magistrates' court - it'll probably come before a District Judge who'll more than likely throw it out. This is a private prosecution as opposed to one brought by the state so Phillips would need very deep pockets to see what would inevitably be a lengthy, complicated trial through crown court proceedings.

However, if all this results in HMRC (the taxation department) taking a closer look at the morg's finances then it does have the potential to really strike them where it hurts. And what a result it would be if they were found to have taken steps to deliberately avoid paying tax while raking in the Gift Aid tax breaks that come by virtue of their charitable status.


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teoma2
Post  Post subject: Re: The October Surprise is here!  |  Posted: Wed Feb 12, 2014 7:39 am
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Scousette, , thanks for your perceptions from across the pond. T.

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"When authority masquerades as a power, a simple question will unmask it."

"Just because you think, feel, or believe something is true, doesn't make it true!"

"The doubt of your faith, is not God testing you, but truth trying to emerge and free you."


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Dansdone
Post  Post subject: Re: The October Surprise is here!  |  Posted: Wed Feb 12, 2014 1:17 pm
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Publicity has made it's mark already, I read articles in the USA Today and the New York Times not to mention it's all over the internet. This is a negative blow to the church as it exposes these issues again and again.

I really doubt it will make much progress in the legal systems. It's almost like making religion prove that God exist. However as 9camsti pointed out these charges are a little more tangible in nature so to speak.

I think the most serious and condemning part is the financial charges. Preachers and ministers in all religions pay income tax on their income. Why should a SP be allowed to live a lavish lifestyle with all kinds of perks and not report any of it as income. The handbook of instruction for stake presidents is a smoking gun. I do for sure know the USA don't allow any compensation going without taxation. That includes company cars, life insurance, monetary rewards or gifts of any kind. Stake Presidents and their wives have personal bank accounts opened in SLC by the church to use for their personal expenses and are instructed to not discuss them with anyone. What are they trying to hide by doing this. According to Tom Phillips the SL team fully aware of the implication of these practices has discussed this and decided to continue without reporting income for Stake Presidencies and agreed that paying the fines if caught would be best. Now that's taking the high road for you in a supposed honest religious organization. :(

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Abinadi
Post  Post subject: Re: The October Surprise is here!  |  Posted: Wed Feb 12, 2014 6:10 pm
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Dansdone wrote:
Stake Presidents and their wives have personal bank accounts opened in SLC by the church to use for their personal expenses and are instructed to not discuss them with anyone.
That's just making me all mad again! I wouldn't care half so much about the Church finances or what they do with the money if they would just tell the members! They don't even do that! No accountability. Nobody knows what's happening with that money. Except the "beneficiaries." When is the last time you heard someone in church say the Mormon ministry works without pay; or, in other churches, the preachers get involved for the pay? - and after hearing it, have a Stake President come up and say, "Oh, that's not quite right. I've got quite a handsome stipend from the Church. Some of us are paid - some, humbly; some, rather handsomely." Ha. It's not just hiding. It's lying. To me it's sort of like (economic) abuse by a person in position authority.


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Dansdone
Post  Post subject: Re: The October Surprise is here!  |  Posted: Thu Feb 13, 2014 6:31 pm
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How profoundly true!


Original Author(s): Kishkumen
Topic: THOMAS PHILLIPS
Quote:
"The temporal kingdom goes on behind closed doors, while the spiritual kingdom is what most members encounter in church."

"Of course, the two sides come together in tithing, fast offerings, and service, but even this temporal side of the spiritual is treated in a predominantly spiritual way. At the same time, the corporation continues the legacy of the temporal kingdom which has much to do with stock in Pepsi and ranch property in Florida. The members do not see or deal with this at all. It was City Creek that smacked many members in the face like a cold, wet hand. Suddenly, the members saw what the leaders were dealing with on a daily basis: the side of the Kingdom of God that had deals with Gucci."

_________________
Ask questions and Family is no longer forever and more often not even for time.
"I don't know that we teach that...I don't know that we emphasize that!"


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teoma2
Post  Post subject: Re: The October Surprise is here!  |  Posted: Fri Feb 14, 2014 9:35 am
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Another interesting sidelight to this is that Phillips has received his "second anointing" and had his "election secured" in the Celestial Kingdom. So, what is the church going to do with him now?

_________________
"When authority masquerades as a power, a simple question will unmask it."

"Just because you think, feel, or believe something is true, doesn't make it true!"

"The doubt of your faith, is not God testing you, but truth trying to emerge and free you."


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teoma2
Post  Post subject: Re: The October Surprise is here!  |  Posted: Fri Feb 21, 2014 11:37 am
God of Mythbusters

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There's is now a bit of anticipation related to the March 14th surprise as well.

_________________
"When authority masquerades as a power, a simple question will unmask it."

"Just because you think, feel, or believe something is true, doesn't make it true!"

"The doubt of your faith, is not God testing you, but truth trying to emerge and free you."


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