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richkelsey.org
Post  Post subject: Re: Brigham Young Knowledge of First Vision  |  Posted: Thu Oct 03, 2013 12:26 pm
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God of Elves, Seer Stones and a Hat

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Dansdone wrote:
I think Thomas S. Monson, the current Prophet seer and revelator should ask God and then come forward with the true and correct answers to all these questions since the Church supports the 1838 version of the first vision. It's time for all this confusion to end!


Did Brigham Young know about the first vision?
Did Brigham Young or Parley Pratt insert it into Lucy's biography or who did?
Why wasn't the first vision even mentioned in the first draft of Lucy's biography?
Which came first the Moroni vision or the God vision?
Did Moroni or God or did both tell Joseph that all religions were an abomination?
Did God and Jesus appear or was it just Jesus as stated in the first hand written account by Joseph Smith?
Was close inner circle members the only ones who were told of the first vision in the early Church?
Was there really persecution as Joseph stated since no one really even knew about the vision until 1838?
Why was Joseph praying in 1823 to know if God exist if he had already seen God in 1820?
Why did family members join other churches after God or was it Moroni told them all religions were wrong?
Why after the first vision did Joseph teach that God was a spirit in the school of prophets from the lectures of faith that was finally removed from the D&C in 1928?
How did Joseph Smith see the face of God without holding the priesthood (ref. D&C)?
Did Joseph Smith suffer from memory issues?

Dan, I searched the Internet using only LDS source material and found solid answers to each one of your questions:

Quote:
"Explain to the children that when Joseph Smith was fourteen years old, he lived with his family on a farm. At that time the people living nearby were interested in religion. The ministers of the different churches held many meetings to explain their beliefs. Each minister said that his church was the right one and tried to get people to join. Because Joseph Smith wanted to know which church really was true, he went to several meetings of different religions. He found that each minister had different ideas about God and the scriptures.

[Then]

Bear your testimony that Joseph Smith saw the Father and the Son, and express your gratitude for Joseph Smith.
...
Testify that Heavenly Father and Jesus love all of us. They will help us find answers to our questions just as they helped Joseph Smith. Angels might not appear to us; but if we ask sincerely, Heavenly Father will answer our prayers in the way that is best for us.
Invite a child to give the closing prayer. Ask him or her to thank Heavenly Father for Joseph Smith and for his vision of Heavenly Father and Jesus." (Lesson 5: The First Vision, Primary 3, (1994), 20–23) http://www.lds.org/manual/primary-3/les ... n?lang=eng

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smartenough
Post  Post subject: Re: Brigham Young Knowledge of First Vision  |  Posted: Thu Oct 03, 2013 12:33 pm
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Great points,Rich. I have always heard that Brigham Young said that it was an angel that visited Josph Smith Junior.


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richkelsey.org
Post  Post subject: Re: Brigham Young Knowledge of First Vision  |  Posted: Thu Oct 03, 2013 1:32 pm
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God of Elves, Seer Stones and a Hat

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productofchoice wrote:
this one is pretty good by Jim Whitefiled.

http://www.themormondelusion.com/page5.html

Peace

Hi Board, over the last week or so there has been an interest in the first vision. My work on the subject compares Smith's supposed actual first vision which he claimed he had in 1823 with the one he later claimed he had in 1820 as found in the Pearl of Great Price / 1838 History of the Church. I do not deal with changes to the "First Vision" from 1832 through 1838. Jim Whitefield's work on the subject covers the vision accounts from 1832 forward; and, also looks back at LDS source material and other historical records.

Here is a very small section from his work which asks a glaring question which no TBM has ever answered:
Quote:
If the First Vision happened as Smith claimed, in 1820, when was it ever mentioned in print anywhere before 1840? The answer – absolutely nowhere! The following publications all came into print and there was no word about any kind of ‘First Vision’ ever recorded in any of them.
 1829-1830. The Book of Mormon. (The ‘First Vision’ would have made an excellent preface).
 1832. Delusions, An Analysis of the Book of Mormon; Alexander Campbell. (Anti-Mormon book).
 1832-1834. Evening and Morning Star. (Mormon Church newspaper).
 1833. Book of Commandments. (Early revelations; yet the first and most important is not mentioned).
 1834. Mormonism Unvailed [sic]; E. D. Howe. (Another Anti-Mormon book – no mention of a ‘First Vision’).
 1834-1835. Lectures of Faith. (No mention of a ‘First Vision’ but talks of God being an ‘omnipresent spirit’).
 1835. Doctrine & Covenants. (Early revelations; and still no mention of the first and most glorious one).
 1834-1836. Latter Day Saints Messenger and Advocate. (Church newspaper – no ‘First Vision’ account ever).
 1837. A Voice of Warning. Parley P. Pratt. (Missionary booklet with well over 200 pages – includes revelations and restoration details etc., and yet no mention of a ‘First Vision’ whatsoever).
 1839-1846. Times and Seasons. (Church newspaper – no ‘First Vision’ mentioned before the 1842 publication).
 1840-1970. Millennial Star. (UK Mormon publication – again no mention of any ‘First Vision’ prior to 1842).
 1842. Mormonism in All Ages; J. B. Turner. (Yet another anti-Mormon book, published twenty-two years after the supposed event, with still no mention of any such thing as a claim to a glorious ‘First Vision’ by Joseph Smith).
Jim Whitefield, The First vision — the Joseph Smith Story

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Rich Kelsey


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Dansdone
Post  Post subject: Re: Brigham Young Knowledge of First Vision  |  Posted: Thu Oct 03, 2013 7:35 pm
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Quote:
Dan, I searched the Internet using only LDS source material and found solid answers to each one of your questions:


Oh, yea.........that one. :mrgreen: That Old Panacea never fails.

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