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Hightop1
Post  Post subject: Gold Darius Plates  |  Posted: Fri May 26, 2017 9:53 am
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Are these a Mormon myth? I stumbled on them in the 1972 Cheesman video but cannot find evidence outside of LDS related sites.

Thanks for any help with this


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productofchoice
Post  Post subject: Re: Gold Darius Plates  |  Posted: Fri May 26, 2017 10:40 am
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Maybe not a myth:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/2939362.stm

Peace

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I resigned from the Church of THE Jesus Christ of the Latter Day Saints (Feb 2011)

"For nothing is secret, that shall not be made manifest; neither any thing hid, that shall not be known and come abroad." - Luke 8:17


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Hightop1
Post  Post subject: Re: Gold Darius Plates  |  Posted: Fri May 26, 2017 10:59 am
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Thanks for that link. A brief search however makes me wonder if that book is also not real. Both the Darius Plates and Strouma Gold Book led to mostly LDS associated sites. There are surviving ancient texts written on gold or other metal sheets (e.g. pyrgi tablets), but these two may be made up to validate BoM?


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Hightop1
Post  Post subject: Re: Gold Darius Plates  |  Posted: Fri May 26, 2017 12:27 pm
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The Bulgarian National History Museum has no mention of the Strouma golden book from the "BBC" link. https://historymuseum.org/en/


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productofchoice
Post  Post subject: Re: Gold Darius Plates  |  Posted: Tue May 30, 2017 9:47 am
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HighTop1,

It's pretty fascinating to learn about the Jewish traditions/rules around writing the Torah, because that's part of what Nephi stole/looted from Laban.

Quote:
The materials used for creating these sacred items are restricted as well. Parchment used for the writing must be made from the skin of a kosher animal. The scribe mixes a special ink for the writing and prepares the actual writing utensil, a quill, usually from a turkey feather. He uses a reed instrument to scratch lines into the parchment in preparation for the writing. Once all the writing has been completed, the pieces of parchment are sewn together with thread made of animal veins. The finished scroll is attached to wooden rollers. No instrument containing iron or steel may be used in the creation of a Torah scroll, because these metals are used to create instruments of war.

http://www.myjewishlearning.com/article/torah-scroll/
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Torah#Pro ... rah_scroll

Such care in preserving it is not a new thing. Such care in scribing it is not new either. To write it on a different material and in a different language would be laughable to a Hebrew.

From the Christian perspective there is great meaning as well to what is said in John, that "The Word became flesh and dwelled among us." And in other places that He would write his word in our hearts and in our minds. That skins make much more sense. Like so many things in the Bible, there is a blood sacrifice involved in it, just like when God clothed Adam and Eve with skins.

And have you see some traditional Torah? I've seen a local museum with their Jewish exhibit and it's fascinating to see the Torah and how they are stored and decorated. Literally they have a crown on them and a robe. The pointer is a metal hand (silver?) They have a case of wood and silver (and those materials have their own meaning). There is great depth to the meaning and tradition.
http://ncartmuseum.org/art/view/judaic
http://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/torah-ornaments
https://www.pinterest.com/pin/160651911682983990/

Fascinating to study. Devastating to the concept that Laban would own a copy of the Torah written in Egyptian on metal plates or that Nephi and others would continue to transcribe them that way or that they would be deemed trusted.

Anyway, so whether the Darius plates existed, they don't prove anything. If you're getting pressured on it, look at the Kinderhook plates or the grad job Joseph did translating the Book of Abraham, which scrolls we happen to have beautiful full color pictures of and which have been studied by scholars. Those alone throw plenty of doubt on Joseph's ability to translate. Not to mention how he contradicts himself in the JST when he translates the Bible to a phrase that identical 3 Nephi that and Matthew but no longer matches either in the JST.

Or look at how many changes happened to the BoM since the very first edition. Or how could it be translated properly when it was translated by the wrong rock and without using the proper glasses or breastplate that they rested on?
Or look at how many changes happened to the D&C since the Book of Commandments days ... why doesn't D&C 5 exactly match BoC 4 ? ... It's dramatically different. And why was the old section 101 kept around until Brigham Young swapped it for the modern Section 132 a couple of years before his death.

I don't know if you needed any or all of that but I think it's useful to understand the story around the story.

Peace

_________________
I resigned from the Church of THE Jesus Christ of the Latter Day Saints (Feb 2011)

"For nothing is secret, that shall not be made manifest; neither any thing hid, that shall not be known and come abroad." - Luke 8:17


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Abinadi
Post  Post subject: Re: Gold Darius Plates  |  Posted: Wed May 31, 2017 2:04 pm
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The reason I know the Book of Mormon is the true word of God is because it talks about Jerusalem, and we know that's a real place, so the Book of Mormon must be true.

That's the same sort of reasoning as
(1) "There was gold in the Old World."
(2) "The Book of Mormon was engraved on gold dishes."
(3) "Therefore the Book of Mormon is true."

Something is missing. The fact that something exists in one place, and is claimed to exist, or even actually does exist, in a second place, is not evidence that the second thing is legitimate or true.

Besides, when it was argued that Joseph Smith could not have run as he claimed he had, leaping over logs, carrying the plates, if they were made of gold, as in real gold, then the Church countered with, "Well, it wasn't pure gold." In other words, it wasn't gold. It was aluminum or mica or something, but it was not the material that was in actually gold "gold plates of the Middle East."

Mormon Church: C for effort, F for accomplishment - or maybe that should be an "R" - constantly Revising, Reversing, Re-imagining.


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Hightop1
Post  Post subject: Re: Gold Darius Plates  |  Posted: Thu Jun 01, 2017 5:47 am
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Thanks very much for your comments. I'll check back when I have more questions!


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