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pettifogger
Post  Post subject: Re: Currently being recruited by missionaries  |  Posted: Wed May 17, 2017 6:28 pm
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I have begun reading the Brodie text. She doesn't leave a lot of stones unturned and I'm only about 50 pages into it.

I still can't shake the impression that Joseph Smith thought he was the reincarnation of Solomon. It explains so much of his behavior. The links with Freemasonry and the building of "temples." The multiple marriages too!


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Abinadi
Post  Post subject: Re: Currently being recruited by missionaries  |  Posted: Wed May 17, 2017 11:15 pm
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I enjoyed Fawn Brodie's book very much. One of the gerontal authorities wrote a rebuttal, "No Ma'am, that is not history!" - I think it was to her book. His was a small pamphlet, and he gave it the best try he could, and sounded sincere most of the time. I found a little misrepresentation and a bit of petulance in his effort; but I'm sure as a Mormon I would have sided with him. Unless I had actually read Brodie's book, and knew half as much history as she did. Hers surely was not the first eye-opener, but it was one of the more powerful early eye-openers into the non-mythological side of Joseph Smith's history.


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teoma2
Post  Post subject: Re: Currently being recruited by missionaries  |  Posted: Thu May 18, 2017 7:57 am
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For myself here now, "No Man Knows My History" had special relevance, since I grew up in that part of Western New York and could closely relate to the the story line as Brodie presented it.

Should one still have doubts, even after reading the book, you can check out the Chenago County Historical Society building on Rexford St. in Chenago, NY, and maybe ask for a copy of the "Joseph Smith packet."

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"Just because you think, feel, or believe something is true, doesn't make it true!"

"The doubt of your faith, is not God testing you, but truth trying to emerge and free you."


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Melanie
Post  Post subject: Re: Currently being recruited by missionaries  |  Posted: Thu May 18, 2017 8:45 am
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Hi!
pettifogger wrote:
I still can't shake the impression that Joseph Smith thought he was the reincarnation of Solomon. It explains so much of his behavior. The links with Freemasonry and the building of "temples."

Actually the masonic rites in the Temple have nothing to do with Solomon, all that story about someone observing the ritual; tis a lie, so even if Smith thought he was a reincarnation of Solomon, which I do not agree with anyhow, but even if he did, it wouldn't explain the Masonry connection. That connection is very well explained through the actual facts, which are easy to find.
Smith emulated Muhammad.

Understanding mormonism is all about the facts and not going on hunches.

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pettifogger
Post  Post subject: Re: Currently being recruited by missionaries  |  Posted: Thu May 18, 2017 10:10 am
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Discovered this on the shelf at Mizzou near the Brodie text:

Radical Origins: Early Mormon Converts and their Colonial Ancestors by Val D. Rust (2004)

A demographic inquiry into who the early converts were.

Joseph Smith didn't convert "ordinary Protestants" These were people and their ancestors who had been ostracized for several generations.

Can't wait to finish reading it!


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pettifogger
Post  Post subject: Re: Currently being recruited by missionaries  |  Posted: Sun May 21, 2017 2:25 pm
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I guess after 6 weeks as an investigator I have discovered something about Mormonism that is probably NOT news to participants on this board:

LDS is TOO antiseptic.

I'm amazed that individuals are getting anything emotional from the Mormon experience. It just doesn't pull at my heart.
I think I'm the only one who attends these services (this weekend was my first stake conference) wearing tasseled loafers. The dress code for these folks is almost military for the men with only slight variations for the women.


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productofchoice
Post  Post subject: Re: Currently being recruited by missionaries  |  Posted: Sun May 21, 2017 3:27 pm
God

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pettifogger wrote:
I have begun reading the Brodie text. She doesn't leave a lot of stones unturned and I'm only about 50 pages into it.

I still can't shake the impression that Joseph Smith thought he was the reincarnation of Solomon. It explains so much of his behavior. The links with Freemasonry and the building of "temples." The multiple marriages too!


Early on Joseph was anti - Freemason. Grant Palmer points out places in the BoM that talk against secret organizations, secret combinations, etc. Think about the gadianton robbers.

Peace

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I resigned from the Church of THE Jesus Christ of the Latter Day Saints (Feb 2011)

"For nothing is secret, that shall not be made manifest; neither any thing hid, that shall not be known and come abroad." - Luke 8:17


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pettifogger
Post  Post subject: Re: Currently being recruited by missionaries  |  Posted: Thu May 25, 2017 7:33 am
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I broke it to my missionaries last night that I wouldn't be attending church this Sunday with them.

I felt it was time to move onward.

I sensed that one of the missionaries was saddened by my decision and other was worried more about my salvation.

I left the door open for a possible change of attitude BUT my presence at my first stake conference last Sunday (seeing the entire regional Mormon tribe) convinced me that I didn't belong. The vibe was simply wrong "for me."

I reiterate again: I find the entire Mormon lifestyle (not the religion itself) TOO antiseptic. I got the general impression that Mormon people (not my missionaries) are living some kind of illusion (perhaps delusion?). I felt a sense of "cult" not religion. Am I wrong?


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joseph's myth
Post  Post subject: Currently being recruited by missionaries  |  Posted: Thu May 25, 2017 8:13 am
God of Poly-Folly

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pettifogger wrote:
I broke it to my missionaries last night that I wouldn't be attending church this Sunday with them.

I felt it was time to move onward.

I sensed that one of the missionaries was saddened by my decision and other was worried more about my salvation.

I left the door open for a possible change of attitude BUT my presence at my first stake conference last Sunday (seeing the entire regional Mormon tribe) convinced me that I didn't belong. The vibe was simply wrong "for me."

I reiterate again: I find the entire Mormon lifestyle (not the religion itself) TOO antiseptic. I got the general impression that Mormon people (not my missionaries) are living some kind of illusion (perhaps delusion?). I felt a sense of "cult" not religion. Am I wrong?


It's not only vibe or excessive fervor, the antiseptic atmosphere might be toxic too, and thereby somewhat or completely unhealthy or damaging to one's well being.

viewtopic.php?f=2&t=52259&sid=64abcfd8a6ca187dda224e2036b74c1e#p130826

The powder keg of discouraging true investigations of Mormonism is very troubling, not any law can protect an unrepentant LDS church (sm C) from suffering loss of membership from here on out.

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{If you believe in things that you don't understand, then you suffer ~Stevie Wonder}
.................. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ekkkD8HU944
........................ http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ekkkD8HU944
.................. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ekkkD8HU944


God of Poly-Folly Folly


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productofchoice
Post  Post subject: Re: Currently being recruited by missionaries  |  Posted: Thu May 25, 2017 9:14 am
God

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"Cult" is a loaded word with different meanings to different people. But, Mormonism does have many characteristics that are common to cults. Use the term judiciously because it's fighting words.

Peace

_________________
I resigned from the Church of THE Jesus Christ of the Latter Day Saints (Feb 2011)

"For nothing is secret, that shall not be made manifest; neither any thing hid, that shall not be known and come abroad." - Luke 8:17


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joseph's myth
Post  Post subject: Currently being recruited by missionaries  |  Posted: Thu May 25, 2017 9:39 am
God of Poly-Folly

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productofchoice wrote:
"Cult" is a loaded word with different meanings to different people. But, Mormonism does have many characteristics that are common to cults. Use the term judiciously because it's fighting words.

Peace


No need to cult call in Happy Valley, the buildings are shutting down one by one as we speak.

http://www.sequimgazette.com/news/clall ... embership/

_________________
God of Poly-Folly Folly

{If you believe in things that you don't understand, then you suffer ~Stevie Wonder}
.................. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ekkkD8HU944
........................ http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ekkkD8HU944
.................. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ekkkD8HU944


God of Poly-Folly Folly


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pettifogger
Post  Post subject: Re: Currently being recruited by missionaries  |  Posted: Thu May 25, 2017 10:48 am
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productofchoice wrote:
"Cult" is a loaded word with different meanings to different people. But, Mormonism does have many characteristics that are common to cults. Use the term judiciously because it's fighting words.

Peace



Fair enough. The atmosphere of "blind obedient conformity" was perhaps too much for me.

Mormonism is too antiseptic IMO.


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