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pettifogger
Post  Post subject: Re: Currently being recruited by missionaries  |  Posted: Thu Apr 06, 2017 3:33 pm
Sunbeam

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Melanie wrote:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-VKT4hrBTuk

This is very good I think.



It is very funny. The comments section is also very interesting.


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pettifogger
Post  Post subject: Re: Currently being recruited by missionaries  |  Posted: Thu Apr 06, 2017 3:35 pm
Sunbeam

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teoma2 wrote:
Neither did your parents when they engaged in sex and created you in the process.



:icon-lol: :angelic-blueglow: :dance:


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pettifogger
Post  Post subject: Re: Currently being recruited by missionaries  |  Posted: Thu Apr 06, 2017 3:40 pm
Sunbeam

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Melanie wrote:
Hello, It's probably best not to join. You are not seeing baptism in your future anyhow so seems like you already know that. Did you enjoy conference? You can take the good without any commitment and when the Elders know that you don't want to be baptised they will stop calling anyhow. They are nice kids. Glad you dropped by, welcome :)



Yes, I enjoyed the conference. The singing was nice and the speakers included some humor. When they announced the creation of two new temples in Pocatello and Utah, I heard "yips" from the congregation inside the temple at Salt Lake City.

I can't wait for the three hour regular service this Sunday (1-4 PM CST).


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Rainfeather
Post  Post subject: Re: Currently being recruited by missionaries  |  Posted: Thu Apr 06, 2017 6:48 pm
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I can't listen to Conference. That conference drone voice creeps me out too much.

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"A mind stretched by a new idea can never go back to its original dimensions." - Oliver Wendell Holmes


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joseph's myth
Post  Post subject: Currently being recruited by missionaries  |  Posted: Fri Apr 07, 2017 9:04 am
God of Poly-Folly

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Rainfeather wrote:
I can't listen to Conference. That conference drone voice creeps me out too much.


I'm wondering if we got a little troll action moving in on us, the second strike comes on the heels of no followup what-so-ever to the query this mentally ill Smith securely proves himself to be over and over again.

[[ A bum leg from almost having it amputated due to an infection gave a lot of incentives for Joseph Smith to create ways to try and make some income without relying on physical strength or endurance. The authorship study done by Craig Criddle says he plagiarized nearly all of everything he produced.

The unexpected death of his older brother seems to have set a lot of things into motion. Most likely Joseph places the vision he had at a date before his brother dies, for reasons we can only speculate to try and understand. We do know it was a life changing event for the Smith family. The brother was accidentally poisoned by doctors.

Joseph Smith "dissociation disorder" may be found on YouTube through Heart Of The Matter, and Shawn McCraney if you care to look.

https://youtu.be/Zm2m5D9MkpY ]]


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God of Poly-Folly Folly

{If you believe in things that you don't understand, then you suffer ~Stevie Wonder}
.................. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ekkkD8HU944
........................ http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ekkkD8HU944
.................. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ekkkD8HU944


God of Poly-Folly Folly


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pettifogger
Post  Post subject: Re: Currently being recruited by missionaries  |  Posted: Fri Apr 07, 2017 12:03 pm
Sunbeam

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My honest assessment is that even if the Book of Mormon was divinely inspired, Joseph Smith was an erratic individual.

How that translates to defining a specific mental disorder is something for experts to discuss not me.

Perhaps at some juncture he believed he was the reincarnation of Solomon. It would explain a lot of his behavior(s).

This whole thing revolves around who and what Joseph Smith was as a person NOT a prophet.


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pettifogger
Post  Post subject: Re: Currently being recruited by missionaries  |  Posted: Fri Apr 07, 2017 12:12 pm
Sunbeam

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productofchoice wrote:


My opinion is that he was actually very intelligent. That he had help from some trusted friends who were in on the scam, to make some money. The timeframe that is presented for the translation of the BoM ignores the time between when the manuscript was supposedly finished and when the first edition was printed. There is time in between for refinement of the text.

The book, "View of the Hebrews" fits the plot of the Book of Mormon quite well and would likely have been available to Joseph. There are a couple of other books written in much the same style. These can be analyzed by programs that look for plagiarism in student's essays/papers for example and help identify if it's likely that the writing style matches the writing style of another source. More on this can be read on MormonThink here.

There are also sections that seem like they were local sermons or political talks and then added to the BoM because of the subjects that are discussed. He answered some of the key questions of the day WRT political systems, the presence of life in the Americas vs Noah's global flood and what happened to the lost tribes.

So he was smart; He gathered material, produced a story and sold it ... and he knew how to play the con.

Peace




I prefer the assessment that Joseph Smith concocted all of this as a joke and couldn't believe anyone took it seriously. The question becomes who was in on the joke from the onset?

Has anyone ever seen the movie Zardoz with Sean Connery? :icon-rolleyes:


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Melanie
Post  Post subject: Re: Currently being recruited by missionaries  |  Posted: Fri Apr 07, 2017 12:43 pm
myself

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It wasn't a joke, not then and not now. I wonder what your motivation is for your wanting to learn everything about the Mormon faith, when you are sure you will not be baptised, and where the Forums fits into that. All the information is online and it is very easy to talk to missionaries online too.

I agree with you that it does depend upon who Smith was as a man. He wanted money and he was very versed in telling narrative stories. You could read about the money digging trials. http://richkelsey.org/joseph_smith_mone ... ounts.html

People are greatly hurt from involvement with this organisation and greatly strengthened by their recovery from it. It is not a game to be played.

I hope you will have a good experience on Sunday.

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Why leave? http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=pl ... 989OOSOycw
How to heal? http://media.blubrry.com/mormonexpressi ... ion225.mp3


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productofchoice
Post  Post subject: Re: Currently being recruited by missionaries  |  Posted: Fri Apr 07, 2017 2:27 pm
God

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pettifogger wrote:
I prefer the assessment that Joseph Smith concocted all of this as a joke and couldn't believe anyone took it seriously. The question becomes who was in on the joke from the onset?


I don't know that I'd call it a joke but he and his friends were in some money digging clubs and they were supposed to split any profits. If Joseph told a lie, like he found some golden book, then dollar signs go off in their eyes and they want a cut. He then has to build up a way to pay them off and so the con begins.

I don't think he started out wanting to build a church, he started out wanting to make a buck.

Who? That core that was with him from the beginning. Maybe not Emma. Do a better job documenting them than I so if the details matter, go look around. A starting point might be here: http://www.mormonthink.com/josephweb.htm#whywould

Peace

_________________
I resigned from the Church of THE Jesus Christ of the Latter Day Saints (Feb 2011)

"For nothing is secret, that shall not be made manifest; neither any thing hid, that shall not be known and come abroad." - Luke 8:17


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pettifogger
Post  Post subject: Re: Currently being recruited by missionaries  |  Posted: Fri Apr 07, 2017 3:49 pm
Sunbeam

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Melanie wrote:
It wasn't a joke, not then and not now. I wonder what your motivation is for your wanting to learn everything about the Mormon faith, when you are sure you will not be baptised, and where the Forums fits into that.

People are greatly hurt from involvement with this organisation and greatly strengthened by their recovery from it. It is not a game to be played.




First and foremost, I didn't go looking for Mormonism. Mormonism found me.

You can claim it all started as a con but you don't really know what the genesis was for the origin. The saddest reality my be that it started as a joke and turned into a full blown con game.

I chose your board because it seemed to be the most realistic of the ex-Mormon and anti-Mormon websites out there.

I reiterate again that Joseph Smith exhibited erratic behavior that characterized some type(s) of mental instability. Clearly this is most evident in the last ten years of his life.


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joseph's myth
Post  Post subject: Currently being recruited by missionaries  |  Posted: Sat Apr 08, 2017 5:06 am
God of Poly-Folly

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pettifogger wrote:
First and foremost, I didn't go looking for Mormonism. Mormonism found me.

You can claim it all started as a con but you don't really know what the genesis was for the origin.
The saddest reality my be that it started as a joke and turned into a full blown con game.

I chose your board because it seemed to be the most realistic of the ex-Mormon and anti-Mormon websites out there. I reiterate again that Joseph Smith exhibited erratic behavior that characterized some type(s) of mental instability. Clearly this is most evident in the last ten years of his life.


Hey hey newbe, try and calm down a little bit more. Remember, you're only a guest here, maybe we're all only just guests here.

When you suggested it's all only a con game or a big joke, you're trolling or acting a lot like a troll.
It is not quite acceptable so please discontinue behavior like this. How many warnings do you want?

I would recommend trying to be a lot less disrespectful if you have it somewhere inside of your makeup.

Is your aim of a primary interest to continue attempting to be disruptive without being easily discovered? That's not a good idea, this is not a safe place for behavior like that.

Somebody got inside of the recently collapsed postmormon website and it is gone, maybe gone for the longer term than expected. It was most likely caused by Mormons doing what they do best, they deceive and are very very good at it.

.

_________________
God of Poly-Folly Folly

{If you believe in things that you don't understand, then you suffer ~Stevie Wonder}
.................. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ekkkD8HU944
........................ http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ekkkD8HU944
.................. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ekkkD8HU944


God of Poly-Folly Folly


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Rainfeather
Post  Post subject: Re: Currently being recruited by missionaries  |  Posted: Sat Apr 08, 2017 6:56 am
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There is a board on this forum called Debate and Politics in Mormonism. That's really the place for those who wish to debate the merits of the organization. The members of this forum can choose to go there to debate, or those who are in a more tender stage of recovery can avoid that board if they wish.

As long as people don't start calling each other names, debate is allowed there.

The thing is that we are a group of Ex-Mormons, so it would stand to reason that we are not exactly favourable to the Church. Many of us have been through some very painful experiences, some of which have been outlined throughout this forum.

_________________
"A mind stretched by a new idea can never go back to its original dimensions." - Oliver Wendell Holmes


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pettifogger
Post  Post subject: Re: Currently being recruited by missionaries  |  Posted: Fri May 12, 2017 11:37 am
Sunbeam

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Six weeks into my investigator status and attended by first "baptism" last night.

I've finished reading the Book of Mormon too.

I have a real problem with 3rd Nephi. WHY did Jesus come into the Western Hemisphere after his resurrection?

They also expect me to abandon my Arizona Arnold Palmer Lite (half lemonade, half iced tea). Since it is only HALF iced tea, I've argued with the missionaries that it is only HALF a transgression. The local bishop apparently views it as a FULL transgression. I wonder if they would withhold a temple recommend for drinking it?


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productofchoice
Post  Post subject: Re: Currently being recruited by missionaries  |  Posted: Fri May 12, 2017 2:44 pm
God

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pettifogger wrote:
I have a real problem with 3rd Nephi. WHY did Jesus come into the Western Hemisphere after his resurrection?


I was told that it was so that the people in the Americas would get the direct word from Jesus. The Bible records that many saw Him post resurrection in the Jerusalem area.

Speaking of 3 Nephi. It records a set of verses that very much match what Jesus said in the Sermon on the mount. Compare 3 Nephi 14:6 to Matthew 7:6 and then check out the Joseph Smith translation on that verse. Curious what matches what.


pettifogger wrote:
They also expect me to abandon my Arizona Arnold Palmer Lite (half lemonade, half iced tea). Since it is only HALF iced tea, I've argued with the missionaries that it is only HALF a transgression. The local bishop apparently views it as a FULL transgression. I wonder if they would withhold a temple recommend for drinking it?


Yes, they would withhold it.

_________________
I resigned from the Church of THE Jesus Christ of the Latter Day Saints (Feb 2011)

"For nothing is secret, that shall not be made manifest; neither any thing hid, that shall not be known and come abroad." - Luke 8:17


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pettifogger
Post  Post subject: Re: Currently being recruited by missionaries  |  Posted: Fri May 12, 2017 3:23 pm
Sunbeam

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Thanks for responding.

My overall impression after 6 weeks is that I'm dealing with some real down-to-earth people and everyone has been really nice. It was the bishop and his wife who took me to the Mormon baptism last night.

Nonetheless, I have lingering doubts. I really would like to know much more about Joseph Smith the person not the prophet.

The never ending rules and expectations are a bit too much in my opinion. It was interesting last week to hear people (including children) give testimonies.

I've never been a hardcore sinner and I can see myself constantly dealing with MINOR transgressions for which I really wouldn't be repentant.

As I've stated previously, I think LDS is for people who need "structure in their life." It certainly will provide that for you!


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teoma2
Post  Post subject: Re: Currently being recruited by missionaries  |  Posted: Sat May 13, 2017 7:18 am
God of Mythbusters

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Keep looking to satisfy your lingering doubts and as you go about that, remember that truth is normally not given, its found.

_________________
"When authority masquerades as a power, a simple question will unmask it."

"Just because you think, feel, or believe something is true, doesn't make it true!"

"The doubt of your faith, is not God testing you, but truth trying to emerge and free you."


Last edited by teoma2 on Sat May 13, 2017 7:25 am, edited 1 time in total.


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teoma2
Post  Post subject: Re: Currently being recruited by missionaries  |  Posted: Sat May 13, 2017 7:23 am
God of Mythbusters

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Certainly, like the many weak minded out in the world who couldn't figure this scam out if it bit them on the nose. they really need that so called "structure" to help them cope with the adversity in life.

_________________
"When authority masquerades as a power, a simple question will unmask it."

"Just because you think, feel, or believe something is true, doesn't make it true!"

"The doubt of your faith, is not God testing you, but truth trying to emerge and free you."


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productofchoice
Post  Post subject: Re: Currently being recruited by missionaries  |  Posted: Mon May 15, 2017 7:35 am
God

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pettifogger wrote:
I really would like to know much more about Joseph Smith the person not the prophet.


Fawn Brodie, wrote a book "No Man Knows My History" where she really tells Joseph Smith's story. It's her biography of him based on historical documents, journals, etc of the day. I found it to be an interesting and fairly easy read.

Richard Bushman, "Rough Stone Rolling" is also good but not as readable in my opinion.


Peace

_________________
I resigned from the Church of THE Jesus Christ of the Latter Day Saints (Feb 2011)

"For nothing is secret, that shall not be made manifest; neither any thing hid, that shall not be known and come abroad." - Luke 8:17


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pettifogger
Post  Post subject: Re: Currently being recruited by missionaries  |  Posted: Mon May 15, 2017 11:42 am
Sunbeam

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Thank you for the tips on Fawn Brodie and Richard Bushman.

I'll see if the university library has either text.


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productofchoice
Post  Post subject: Re: Currently being recruited by missionaries  |  Posted: Mon May 15, 2017 3:42 pm
God

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While you're looking, maybe "In Sacred Loneliness" by Todd Compton. Todd is another LDS (still?) historian and author. Todd was researching some of Brigham's wives and stumbled on a woman who was previously married to Joseph Smith, and that's when the research behind this book started. It's a set of biographies on 23 women who have pretty solid evidence that they were married to Joseph Smith. Todd thought it would be good to share their stories.

Mary Elizabeth Lightner Rollins is one I like to refer back to. There's a picture of Mary when she's a child where she and some other girl are fleeing from the burning printing press carrying an armful of papers. Those were pages of the Book of Commandments. She was a hero of the day for helping preserve these writings. Todd's book talks about the when and where and how and other odd events surrounding her marriage to Joseph Smith.

The recent LDS Church Essays expose (from the horses mouth) that Joseph was married to some women who were already married. Todd gives the details about who they were. It also exposes pairs of sisters and even Mother/daughter pairs. The Bible speaks against marrying sisters and it speaks against marrying both a mother and her daughter.

The stories are again very readable and interesting and give a personal account to women who have been glossed over for too long.

Peace

_________________
I resigned from the Church of THE Jesus Christ of the Latter Day Saints (Feb 2011)

"For nothing is secret, that shall not be made manifest; neither any thing hid, that shall not be known and come abroad." - Luke 8:17


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