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StephV
Post  Post subject: My husband is divorcing me for Joseph Smith  |  Posted: Mon Jan 11, 2016 3:28 pm
Nursery

Joined: Mon Jan 11, 2016 2:53 pm
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Hello guys. I was raised in the church, went to BYU and all of that, got married in the temple, had kids, but then started to question. I'm an individual and a thinker, and none of it made sense to me. As a woman, I felt forced into a box. It was scary but I went against the church's counsel and actually did real research and looked into the history etc. Obviously I discovered it was a sham. But my husband was hardcore and even I had been. I kept it to myself for a couple years but then I couldn't. I told my husband and problems arose. He resented me and was angry at me. I didn't feel I fit in anywhere. My family and Mormon friends didn't understand me, but my non-Mormon friends didn't either. So I went about it alone. My reason for life, that climb to celestial glory, the entire purpose for my existence had crumbled around me, and I had to build my purpose on my own. It was hard not having anyone, but I feel I'm a strong person, so I managed to put the pieces together. I'm a million times happier now, as an ex-Mormon/atheist, than I ever was as a devout member. I feel peace in my life and happiness and enjoy motherhood more than I ever did before. My life is my choice and I value it; no one else can control my happiness. Well this has all taken place over the past 6 years or so. I've always supported my husband in his belief of the church and said I wouldn't keep him from that. I don't debate with him. I encourage him to do what he wants. Well, he came to me last night and said that he loves me and I'm amazing, but he needs to divorce me because if he stays with me, he will end up leaving the church too. He said being married to me, makes him not want to go to church and that he needs a Mormon wife to be happy and keep him on the right path (no personal accountability there). He struggles with the religious guilt—his father was a mission president and they had ten kids and all that. My husband chose Joseph Smith over me and his children, is how I feel. I understand his mindset. I've lived the religion. Maybe I would've done the same thing at one point in my life. But that was the last straw for me. I'm removing my name from the records of the church.


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Melanie
Post  Post subject: Re: My husband is divorcing me for Joseph Smith  |  Posted: Mon Jan 11, 2016 5:02 pm
myself

Joined: Sat Jun 22, 2013 4:34 pm
Posts: 1679
Location: England

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Hi! Welcome! I am sorry, this is really hard all round. It sounds like your husband is running scared.
Is it ridiculous to suggest some form of relationship counselling? Have you checked out White Fields? http://whitefieldseducational.org/
He seems a bit in pain and also, if you will excuse me, a little bit weak, but I know that can be borne from pain. Guys like that need strong women and you are certainly strong.

Can there not be a happy ending for you all?

If it were me, I would not resign right now, as that is surely going to hurt him more. The organisation does not care about you, so I would not further hurt your family by choosing to resign at this point.

However, feel free to ignore all of this if it is way off mark. I certainly feel for you and send you all my best.

_________________
Why leave? http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=pl ... 989OOSOycw
How to heal? http://media.blubrry.com/mormonexpressi ... ion225.mp3


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StephV
Post  Post subject: Re: My husband is divorcing me for Joseph Smith  |  Posted: Mon Jan 11, 2016 6:11 pm
Nursery

Joined: Mon Jan 11, 2016 2:53 pm
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Hi Melanie. That looks like a Mormon counseling site, which is something I'm definitely not interested in. My husband has been seeing a therapist for a long time and I have gone with him several times, but the marriage itself is fine so couple counseling didn't do much. We don't fight, we go out on dates every weekend, everything else is better than most. So the therapist has been focusing on him. But he's so intensely indoctrinated he can't find true happiness within himself, unless he's "equally yoked" with a partner. I'm not sure if you're LDS because the terminology you used makes it sound as if you aren't, but it's very difficult for Mormons to stay with a spouse who leaves the church. This has been a six year process. I also can't put my name behind a religion that is founded by a man who manipulated young girls and was a con man. The church has excommunicated feminists and won't allow gay people's children to be baptized. My name on the records, says I support this. This is about my integrity. And the only people I'm concerned about hurting are my children, and they know I don't believe it and they don't care one bit. In fact, my teenage sons don't believe it but go for their friends and dad.


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Melanie
Post  Post subject: Re: My husband is divorcing me for Joseph Smith  |  Posted: Tue Jan 12, 2016 9:53 am
myself

Joined: Sat Jun 22, 2013 4:34 pm
Posts: 1679
Location: England

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Hi! White Fields helps with all stages of religious transition and has excellent relationship counsel to help everyone dealing with transition in their relationships regardless of their current level of involvement with being LDS. It is a state of the art service and run by people with the very greatest of LDS/atheist experience. Set up by, in my opinion, one of the biggest names in ex-mormon living.

Soon, I am sure, others will post and share their incredible experiences.

Speaking as an ex mormon, and being true to my own journey, I absolutely affirm that the religion is never the insurmountable mountain. The human condition is what it is all ultimately about and I have seen so very many examples of that. Every individual, no matter how TBM, can find the core of strength to break out of the cult, if they want it and if they are given a helping hand. And know acceptance.

Of course your journey will unfold as it will.

This is a public forum and posts are read by a wide number of people. As an ex mormon, I affirm that religious difference does not need to be the end of a marriage and that there is a lot of help out there to support people.

Individual people, human beings, are awesome and no cult can ever take away the spirit from an individual.

You will know in your heart what to do and, as I said, I wish you all the very best.

_________________
Why leave? http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=pl ... 989OOSOycw
How to heal? http://media.blubrry.com/mormonexpressi ... ion225.mp3


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productofchoice
Post  Post subject: Re: My husband is divorcing me for Joseph Smith  |  Posted: Tue Jan 12, 2016 9:54 am
God

Joined: Wed Apr 06, 2011 12:49 pm
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Hi Steph,

Welcome!

Several things in his arguments don't make sense if you follow them through to the end. So either he hasn't thought it through or he's not telling you the real facts.

Quote:
Well, he came to me last night and said that he loves me and I'm amazing, but he needs to divorce me because if he stays with me, he will end up leaving the church too. He said being married to me, makes him not want to go to church and that he needs a Mormon wife to be happy and keep him on the right path (no personal accountability there). He struggles with the religious guilt—his father was a mission president and they had ten kids and all that.


Leaving the church? I was a divorced single man with kids and LDS. This is a very hard position to be in as well. The LDS don't have a good support structure for this. People with failed marriages and fragmented families don't fit in with the wards. Divorcing won't simplify that.

I might be reading too much into what you wrote but assuming that you date weekly and that you have a good relationship otherwise I'm just going to gloss over it and say in the bedroom too I assume. Divorced single men who have had a good sex life are gonna struggle going cold turkey. Will he survive that with his chastity intact?

And about the kids, it's nice to fantasize that the kids will want to flock to you but lets be honest, women tend to win that tug of war. If the kids are with you the majority of the time, what are they likely to choose? He will more than likely spiritually loose his family in divorcing you.

With him being one of 10 kids ... I would be money that he's not the only one of the 10 with "problems". I'd bet 2 or 3 of those kids are inactive or worse. Maybe I'm wrong. Who's to say.

His plan ... What's behind it supporting it? If he's trying to make a wise decision isn't it wise for him to find scriptural support for it where it's said to be a wise and prudent solution? Who is supporting his plan of divorcing you? Is it the bishop? The guidance counselor (unlikely as it's not very well thought through)? Some friend?

Which leads to a thought that has nothing to do with LDS specifically. Men don't usually leave without having a place to go. Is he involved with someone else? That's another odds statement I know. I would just recommend you be a bit more nosey.


"he needs a Mormon wife to be happy" ... Umm, are Mormon married couples really any happier than other married couples? Support that please. My experience is no and they slog through bad relationships longer and suffer quietly. Are y'all happy now? Then boom, no argument. Now maybe the happiest time in y'alls marriage was back in the honeymoon era where you were both TBM but that's no promise. To replace you with a fresh new Mormon wife ... well that is iffy too. I was there, I saw the choices, there isn't a great selection. I was a single adults rep for years. Most divorced Mormon women come with kids. Blended families is the most difficult issue for second marriages. It's rocky turf. Adult unmarried singles are adult and unmarried for a reason (or two) and will have a different set of baggage. I can't tell you that there aren't some good choices out there, I got one who is a lovely lady and a great match for me. Mormonism pushes for early marriages before people really settle into who they are to avoid premarital sex right? That means some lousy matches end up in ugly divorces which means some nice wounded people are out there.


" and keep him on the right path (no personal accountability there)" Well isn't divorce starting down the wrong path? Back to the question about who is supporting this decision ... please justify scripturally where this qualifies as "the right path". Article of faith 11 says:
Quote:
11 We claim the privilege of worshiping Almighty God according to the dictates of our own conscience, and allow all men the same privilege, let them worship how, where, or what they may.

Do I fall into the bucket of "all men"? Do you really mean it when you claim this? Why then am I not allowed to worship how I may? I'm letting you do that. Does that mean I'm keeping this article of faith better than you are?
And that said, I suppose you would be willing to be his accountability partner. He can make a list of the things he ought to do to be a good little Mormon boy and you could make help verify that he does these things, like 100% home teaching, etc.

Another thing I'd share, as a single man in the Mormon church you feel a little second class. The good callings ... they go to other people. The social gatherings ... generally driven through women. He may feel second class and wish for more of those things that "normal" Mormons experience. Divorce doesn't unlock that door though. And get this, remarriaged doesn't either. Having been through forbidden territory, he will always carry a mark and many people will be threatened by him. I can almost guarantee he would never be a bishop or elders quorum president.

As a divorced man I lost 1/2 my home equity, 1/2 my retirement and am still paying a significant portion of my salary to child support. I have less influence and access to my kids then I did when I was married to my ex. Thanksgiving, Christmas, birthdays, graduation, first dates, first boyfriends, fights with their friends, cuts and burns, learning to drive, first grandchild, every success, every failure, every struggle, every fear, every tender moment where you are needed ... all these key events in the lives of your kids are colored by divorce. Some children of divorce find ways to leverage parents against each other ... and it's easier because they are already fighting. In other cases the parents take the children from the other as a punishment or the result of them getting a big head about how right they are. In other cases the children are used as a weapon to punish the other parent much to the damage of the children. I've seen all and experienced several of these. It's ugly. Divorce should be followed by a period of time to recover. How long? Depends. It's better if it's a few years to establish self again and to heal from wounds. Divorced people tend to be less happy. Remarried people don't necessarily end up happier because of some of the stresses I mentioned. Point is it's rocky turf forever and this is your moment to stake your claim, that if he leaves you, you are going to fight for your children to be in your life as much as possible and you will hold him responsible financially and in other ways to help support them and maybe even you if alimony is due. You are not going to fold and give him all of it to just go and replace you with some Mormon wife.

So in that light, isn't it maybe worth spending a little time and money to and energy just see if there isn't some other options?

If your were looking at loosing your home to a foundation problem, wouldn't you call someone to see if they could repair it?

If your teeth were hurting and had been for months, would you call a dentist or pull them yourself?

If he resists it's most likely that he has made a choice and knows it's flawed but he doesn't want to get talked out of it and he doesn't want to have someone point out the flaws and make him feel dumb for making a emotional decision with a flawed logical foundation.

Anyway, I've gone on too long but those are some things to consider. Just take him to the end of his plan. Talk him through to where it really goes.

Peace

_________________
I resigned from the Church of THE Jesus Christ of the Latter Day Saints (Feb 2011)

"For nothing is secret, that shall not be made manifest; neither any thing hid, that shall not be known and come abroad." - Luke 8:17


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productofchoice
Post  Post subject: Re: My husband is divorcing me for Joseph Smith  |  Posted: Tue Jan 12, 2016 10:56 am
God

Joined: Wed Apr 06, 2011 12:49 pm
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Location: NC

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Back when I was Mormon and divorcing/divorced I was very active on some divorce support groups. I read many hundreds of stories an saw quite a few people progress through the various phases and pains of breakup and divorce. Rejection is at the core of what the person who gets dumped feels and that surfaces as grief, anger, fear and more. Guilt is at the core of what the dumper feels.

The hard truth is that if he's threatening divorce now, there is some real possibility that he will go through with it.

If he is serious about divorce, Steph, please get an attorney ASAP. Get a settlement while he is reacting from grief. Get the lions share of everything and you can give it back later if you took too much. Cry over your loss after you win this fight. He is likely feeling guilt, you should take advantage of that. Divorce is a financial decision among other things, get an expert.

You might call a few attorneys for a free consultation now and you can learn a few things about your state for free. Your work may have a benefit related to that so check with HR. You can learn what a fair deal looks like and make sure you're on the better side of fair. There is a window of options that define fair in the law, not a single point.

If knowledge is power, don't you want power? This is a time when power will benefit you. You may not choose this but it may happen anyway. Don't let him write the terms of your surrender. You write those terms.

And this is a time where you get that free credit report so you have a snapshot of all your assets and your debts.

And this is a time when you contact the cell phone company for a list of numbers that he's calling and texting.

Be nosey. Don't trust him. It's ok, he's talking about divorcing you.

Get this, and I've seen it many times too, that he is struggling to reject you. He's braced for that. He is preparing himself to see you cry and to beg for him to stay. He has a big head about how badly you need him and want him to stay. He's got this idea that he gets to steer the ship.

And my strong guess is that he has been chewing on this decision for a long time ... quietly, in secret with some support from somebody. So what does that say? He is ahead of you in this game. He's been thinking about it longer, he has been planning it longer, he has been preparing for it longer. You are unprepared and are playing catch-up ... so do it fast.

But the moment you take control you flip the table. He isn't ready to be rejected. He isn't ready to loose control. He has been pressing things ahead as fast as he has been able. He isn't ready for you to show up with a separation agreement for him to sign. He isn't ready for you to give him ultimatums. He isn't ready for you to present your requirements for him to remain your husband.

And sometimes those slaps to the face or kicks to the nuts get the other partner to stop and rethink their decisions a bit.

He goes from rejector to the rejected ... and that's a whole new round of pain to top of his guilt and shame. With any luck he ends up with both the rejection and the guilt. With any luck you can shed the guilt and the grief. And that's an often successful tactic to turn his head and get him to reconsider but if that fails, it also protects you in case he goes through with it anyway. And I suspect your goals are about trusting and supportive relationships, not papers and marriage contracts. The rings and the papers are not the keys here ... they are symbols, not the substance of what matters.

And there's another thing that it says ... You stand up and declare your worth. You declare that you are ok without him. That he's lucky to have you. Let him think about how he's going to feel if you were to move on and find another guy. It's almost a sure thing he hasn't gone there in his mind. He daydreams about himself in a hot new relationship, not about you in a hot new relationship.

Anyway, defend yourself. Educate yourself. Stand up for your self and your own value. Let him wonder if you're going to be the crazy b1tch ex. Let him wonder if he's going to have nothing after the divorce. Let him wonder if he's going to loose the house (and btw generally you don't really want the house, you want money to get your own place free of memories) and the kids. And let him wonder if this is really going to lead to what he is after.

And if things patch up you can always call off the attorneys and leave the marriage intact.

Be a fighter, not a victim.

Peace

_________________
I resigned from the Church of THE Jesus Christ of the Latter Day Saints (Feb 2011)

"For nothing is secret, that shall not be made manifest; neither any thing hid, that shall not be known and come abroad." - Luke 8:17


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teoma2
Post  Post subject: Re: My husband is divorcing me for Joseph Smith  |  Posted: Tue Jan 12, 2016 11:09 am
God of Mythbusters

Joined: Sat Feb 28, 2009 8:30 am
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Location: Kolobian Lowlands

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Hello StephV. Your related story here, brought back memories of what my life under the thumb of TSCC was like. Being a partner to someone who was firmly inoculated in their youth is no easy life, as both of us came to resent each other a great deal.

My ex resorted to the same analogy of not being "Evenly Yoked" as well, and lamented about "not being happy and wanting to laugh again" She compared us to both being like two mules, both yoked to the same plow, working in a field, one wanting to go north while the other was pulling south. Interesting for me to note here, that you would mention the exact same situation that I experienced years ago.

And in the end, she did end up finally choosing TSCC over me. Her relationship with me was not greater than her religion.

_________________
"When authority masquerades as a power, a simple question will unmask it."

"Just because you think, feel, or believe something is true, doesn't make it true!"

"The doubt of your faith, is not God testing you, but truth trying to emerge and free you."


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Melanie
Post  Post subject: Re: My husband is divorcing me for Joseph Smith  |  Posted: Tue Jan 12, 2016 2:40 pm
myself

Joined: Sat Jun 22, 2013 4:34 pm
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Location: England

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What I think, as a further point, is that it is great when the ex-mormon communities really have the organisation in its rightful place and not as a huge monster with power and authority to wreck lives. This is the authentic work of recovery. And of course we are all at different places along that pathway from each other and also at different times ourself within our own lives. But rather than this alienating each other, I think it is awesome when someone else a bit ''ahead'' through experience on that pathway can hold out a light and say, ''it need not be that way of terror you are holding in your head.''


Keep on reading/posting here, whoever, whatever for I say you will not walk amongst better men.

_________________
Why leave? http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=pl ... 989OOSOycw
How to heal? http://media.blubrry.com/mormonexpressi ... ion225.mp3


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