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myseventhheaven
Post  Post subject: thinking of leaving  |  Posted: Tue Dec 17, 2013 4:13 pm
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Hi I am thinking of having my name removed from the Mormon church because my current husband was sealed to his ex wife in the temple and want the seal annuled but the bishop won't allow it because she doesnt want that. He wants me to accept it and get sealed to him as well. And to forgive her. The thing is she had her kids taken away four times by the state and my husband has some custody of his sons with her. I told the bishop this is eternal polygamy and that I will not be bound to her for eternity. Ive stopped attending church and I am the primary president. I was raised catholic and fell upon Mormonism in 1992,was innactive for many years and then returned.

Andie


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Rainfeather
Post  Post subject: Re: thinking of leaving  |  Posted: Tue Dec 17, 2013 7:52 pm
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Hi Andie.

The LDS Church has no such power to "seal" anyone for eternity. It's all imaginary, so none of it really matters. You will not be stuck with anyone for eternity.

Do what you feel is right for you. Don't let others pressure you into doing something you're not comfortable with.

As the expression goes, "To thine own self be true, and it must follow, as the night the day, thou canst not then be false to any man." (Or woman, or God, for that matter).

_________________
"A mind stretched by a new idea can never go back to its original dimensions." - Oliver Wendell Holmes


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myseventhheaven
Post  Post subject: Re: thinking of leaving  |  Posted: Tue Dec 17, 2013 8:01 pm
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Thank u. this is what I thought. I even challenged the bishop and said its not a commandment to be sealed. As in ten commandments. Wikipedia calls it a ritual. Otherwise every religion would do this and know where in the bible does it say this. I would presume my marriage and sharing children is valid but I am being treated as thought my marriage is not valid despite the fact that he divorced her ten years ago and married me legally and we share children. I cannot get past it.

Thanks. Andie


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Rainfeather
Post  Post subject: Re: thinking of leaving  |  Posted: Tue Dec 17, 2013 8:14 pm
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A man can be sealed to many women, so they don't tend to unseal men. They'll only unseal a woman if she's got a very good reason and if she's asking to be sealed to a different man.

They wouldn't want to take the chance of his ex-wife suddenly being sealed to no one. It would also interfere with the sealed children's ordinances.

So they'd rather seal both of you to him and let God take care of it in the next life.

But again, don't let them pressure you into something you're uncomfortable with. It's not right for them to do that to you.

_________________
"A mind stretched by a new idea can never go back to its original dimensions." - Oliver Wendell Holmes


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myseventhheaven
Post  Post subject: Re: thinking of leaving  |  Posted: Tue Dec 17, 2013 10:03 pm
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Its just crazy because he wants to be unsealed to her. And she even tried to get the seal removed. Now this. Either way I am not willing to go through with it. I did tell them that and they were not pleased but I dont believe God would allow this when the bible says one Man and one woman. I was just not expecting to be commanded in such a harsh way to live with this. Forgive and move on. So its made me questions it all and not want to go anymore. I feel like its somewhat of a cult to be honest and it does seem imaginary to me. I guess I am just not feeling the spirit. Lol.

Andie


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Melanie
Post  Post subject: Re: thinking of leaving  |  Posted: Wed Dec 18, 2013 4:08 am
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Hi, Trust your own spirit, your own life values and your own life goals.
Everything in the LDS church can get so very mixed and muddled up.
And of course, in my opinion, go with the Bible and with the God of the Bible, not with this made up distortion.

If you can, check out www.askreality.com and part 7 of the series there, How to avoid deception.
This helped make things very clear for me.

_________________
Why leave? http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=pl ... 989OOSOycw
How to heal? http://media.blubrry.com/mormonexpressi ... ion225.mp3


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productofchoice
Post  Post subject: Re: thinking of leaving  |  Posted: Wed Dec 18, 2013 7:35 am
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Hi Andie,

Welcome!

I was also divorce to my first eternal spouse and stayed an active member. In time I met another woman whom I wished to marry who was also and active member. We married and were going to get sealed later (which was actually advised by our bishop at the time) in part because the time required to get the permissions and basically annulment of the first marriages.

We didn't get sealed in the end, left the LDS church instead and have not regretted it one bit.

There is a geat deal you can study about sealings and temple marriages. Like they say, "God will work it out" ... so then, why does He need us to do anything to begin with? Or if families are forever but all married couples have their own worlds and kingdoms ... where is the interaction? You never hear of LDS God having intereactions with any of his LDS God Brothers, Sisters, Parents, Cousins, etc. Is that the forever family they are talking about?

You may want to look at the early copies of the D&C where section 101 talks about polygamy and condemns it. You may want to look at what the BoM says about polygamy. And what's very interesting is to read about the women who were married to Joseph Smith ... Todd Compton has a great book that gives a biography of each. Mary Elizabeth Lightner is one who always stands out to me.

Look, Jesus in the Bible says that marriage is not of His kingdom. Paul says that it's good that you be like him (single) but if not it's ok that you get married. There are other places where it says it's better if you're not married because hard times will come with it. The Bible talks about how the church will be the bride of Christ.

I don't think that marriage is required for any eternal reasons. It's about this life and it's a shadow of how that relationship with God can and should be in the life to come. I like to say that I'll be praising God with my wife at my side ... much like I do on Sundays.

Peace

_________________
I resigned from the Church of THE Jesus Christ of the Latter Day Saints (Feb 2011)

"For nothing is secret, that shall not be made manifest; neither any thing hid, that shall not be known and come abroad." - Luke 8:17


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Abinadi
Post  Post subject: Re: thinking of leaving  |  Posted: Thu Dec 19, 2013 12:47 pm
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I had not heard of "cancellations" and "clearances" before, that I can recall. http://www.mormonmentality.org/2013/06/18/faq-temple-cancellationclearance.htm
Quote:
#1: What is a Clearance/Cancellation?

A clearance/cancellation is sought by members who have married in the temple, but for whatever reason those marriages have been civilly disbanded and they seek to marry someone else within temple walls. As stated earlier, a clearance is sought by the male, a cancellation by the female. If the male is seeking to remarry in the temple, he is required to have a clearance. A clearance does not end previous sealings he has participated in. If the female is seeking to remarry, she is required to have a cancellation. A cancellation removes previous sealings. Women need cancellations because they cannot be sealed with more than one spouse at a time. Men need a clearance to ensure they are up to date on payments as set by the divorce decree and are not living with their former spouse in sin. Men can be sealed with more than one spouse at a time.
I wonder if my tbm-ex-wife got a cancellation?
Quote:
#8: What about Marie Osmond (or any other exception)?

Exceptions are made all the time regarding this process. Why, I do not know. But until you are the exception, you are the rule.

It’s also a general rule that you can only go through this process for three different individuals before you are barred. Again, exceptions are made but you are the rule until you are an exception.
This funny thing in the comments section: "Men can be sealed with multiple women, women can only be sealed with one man. No one knows the particular reason why, general theory is polygamy." Hah! Yes, maybe polygamy had something to do with it. :titter: :titter: :titter: They should KNOW it does!

Of course, as always, Bishops, Stake Presidents, and other leaders can get intrusive (nasty). From http://www.exmormon.org/mormon/mormon359.htm:
Quote:
A few months into the wait, the stake president came to our house and handed us letters from the first pres. stating that they needed more information. They wanted detailed letters stating all of our sins since we went through the temple for the first time REGARDLESS if it had been repented for already. I was pissed! I refused to write the letter and began looking on the Internet to see if anyone else had a similar experience...and came upon this web site. What a eye opener!

I obviously don't care anymore about the cancellation....my exit letter should take care of that....

_________________
"Prove it!" - Tarquinius Septem

"Everyone has to find his own path." - Ip-Man


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Melanie
Post  Post subject: Re: thinking of leaving  |  Posted: Sat Dec 21, 2013 7:30 am
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myseventhheaven wrote:
Thank u. this is what I thought. I even challenged the bishop and said its not a commandment to be sealed. As in ten commandments. Wikipedia calls it a ritual. Otherwise every religion would do this and know where in the bible does it say this. I would presume my marriage and sharing children is valid but I am being treated as thought my marriage is not valid despite the fact that he divorced her ten years ago and married me legally and we share children. I cannot get past it.

Thanks. Andie


Of course the thing is that it is hard from a Christian perspective to get just how there is salvation in Christ for any woman....I would also add, for any person because, well, it goes on and on and on.......but for this thread......for any woman because it is her husband, the man she is sealed for eternity to, who will call her forth at the day of the Resurrection. So a guy perhaps goes gets one of his wives, ex or present, and then must say to her I suppose, excuse me a moment, I'm just going to get Susan and ..........Nice :( And of course, he can't even call her by the name she has used all her life, he has to know her new name, given to her in the initiatory. This is why they don't like to revoke sealings for eternity, somone has to get the women. There are a lot of spirit babies to have. You can see this too in the men pulling their women through the material veil that LDS have rehung in the Temples. Funny that isn't it, Jesus tore the Temple veil down didn't he!
I do not know why the women must never be told their husbands new names!

And what about the ladies who are sealed to their non believing husbands after their husband's death ? How do they know anyone is coming for them? What if they refused the ordinances done after their death? God will sort it out, well, if we are trusting God, really trusting Him, then that points straight to Christianity, and cuts out the whole LDS thing anyway.

(((One of my closest friends, a lady who loved and still loves me died last year. This is/was her position. I did not know all of this then. It upsets me to think of her lying in her grave with the endowment veil pulled over her face, waiting for her late husband, who knew absolutely nothing of her LDS interest because it had not happened in his lifetime, to come to get her.
I just don't like to think about it. If I had have known what I know now, then I would have helped her come out of the church too. However, the questioning escalated for me after her death. I consider this a very great act of love that she gave to me, so she has helped me to get out.
But in her heart, she knew Jesus, had for many years before she joined the LDS church and I know that that is enough for God. )))

The church is cruel, it deals in deception upon deception upon deception that affects and influences people at their most vulnerable times and makes the pain then of coming to a realisation of this deception so excruciatingly hard. Well, it doesn't have to be hard I guess, just was for me, but absolutely worth it.
What joy to see it for what it is and to be able to help in any part to speak the facts as they are so that everyone, including myself, may get to decide for themselves, having knowledge and truth to guide them.

_________________
Why leave? http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=pl ... 989OOSOycw
How to heal? http://media.blubrry.com/mormonexpressi ... ion225.mp3


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Melanie
Post  Post subject: Re: thinking of leaving  |  Posted: Sat Dec 21, 2013 10:48 am
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He wants me to accept it and get sealed to him as well. And to forgive her. I told the bishop this is eternal polygamy and that I will not be bound to her for eternity.


What the bishop is doing is asking you not just to forgive her but to share your husband through out the eternities with her and to rejoice in the fact that he is making spirit babies with her. And this done in a physical way too, it is not even a esoteric spiritual creation thing, it is physical sex. Assuming you all are worthy of exaltation of course.
This is the doctrine.

https://www.google.co.uk/url?sa=t&rct=j ... 7100,d.d2k

_________________
Why leave? http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=pl ... 989OOSOycw
How to heal? http://media.blubrry.com/mormonexpressi ... ion225.mp3


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myseventhheaven
Post  Post subject: Re: thinking of leaving  |  Posted: Sat Dec 21, 2013 2:22 pm
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wow thats really sick. Well thank you for making me aware of this. not happening. meaning I will never go through with a sealing.


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Melanie
Post  Post subject: Re: thinking of leaving  |  Posted: Sat Dec 21, 2013 3:24 pm
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Hi,
Don't just take my word for it, check it out for yourself and speak to your husband, let him check it out for himself too.
Move together on this, please do that.
Don't let the church cause any more pain for you. It has already caused enough difficulty.
Please, remember productofchoice's posts to you on both your threads.
Steady and gently take it now.

_________________
Why leave? http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=pl ... 989OOSOycw
How to heal? http://media.blubrry.com/mormonexpressi ... ion225.mp3


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Melanie
Post  Post subject: Re: thinking of leaving  |  Posted: Sun Dec 22, 2013 6:06 am
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#3: Am I sealed to my former spouse? (Capitalization used for emphasis and clarity, not for volume)

You are not sealed TO anyone but God. You are sealed WITH your spouse in as far as you are legally married, participated in the sealing ordinance together, honor the covenants you have made AND choose to be with your spouse after you die. Even if you are married and sealed with your spouse, you DO NOT have to be with them in the hereafter—free agency is available to all, all the time. When your divorce is finalized, or covenants are broken, the sealing ordinance as far as your spouse is concerned is no longer valid. You do not covenant TO your spouse, you covenant WITH your spouse. When you and your spouse are no longer together, you are expected to hold your side of the bargain as an individual, which for the most part dribble down to honoring God. Anything covenant that requires a spouse to do (such as procreation) is no more.

http://www.mormonmentality.org/2013/06/ ... arance.htm

This is from the link that Abinadi put on about cancellations and clearances.
It talks about free agency.

Check out the whole section together.

But I think the point still is that the ultimate goal that is taught is that men in the after life do have more than one wife and will create spirit babies together. This is very clear.

Do you wish to immerse yourself in a belief structure that promotes this view, even if the belief structure gives you a breathing space called free agency?

And don't forget, the church is all made up so it is not true and you are not going to have to do it anyway, so don't panic about any of it. None of it is going to happen.

Your eyes have been opened, so now you can gradually and calmly plan your response.

You might want to look at what the new and everlasting covenant is and how the definition of that has changed over the years. It is talked of now in terms of celestial marriage, guess what it used to be.....polygamy.

As I said in my first reply to you, polygamy is at the heart of the doctrine of the church, it is written about in the scriptures, D & C, and look at the other churches and sects that follow Mormon teachings and see how they actively practiCe polygamy today. There is a reason they are doing that you know!

Heavenly Father is the product of a polygamous relationship himself, my Heavenly Mother most likely is not your Heavenly Mother as he has many wives as he is a polygamist, Jesus was believed to be a polygamist having at least 3 wives.......you see Andie this is all why I started too to look at who Jesus truely is because looking at the LDS doctrine became too disgusting for me to carry on, I was devastated to be exposing all of the lies. This was about this time last year, so when I got to Jesus being physically created by physical sex between Heavenly Father and Mary, well, I felt sick. I felt my spirit sink within me. I was scared then, who was Jesus? Did I have to accept this about Him if I wanted to live for Him? Did I need a certificate from Joseph Smith to even get to Jesus? Was priesthood authority real, in which case I was stuck.

But the answers are NO, NO, NO. :angelic-flying:

Then it started to get awesome, I stood in the kitchen one day and a verse popped into my head that i had not thought about for decades.....Jesus is the author and perfecter of our faith Hebrews 12 v 2

You will have some good Christian truth in you too, give it space to grow and you have a way forward.

_________________
Why leave? http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=pl ... 989OOSOycw
How to heal? http://media.blubrry.com/mormonexpressi ... ion225.mp3


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mmandm
Post  Post subject: Re: thinking of leaving  |  Posted: Tue Feb 09, 2016 3:32 pm
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This may be obvious, but am I reading this correctly that when a divorced man submits papers to remove his name from the LDS church, the removal of his name breaks all his dealings with the church including his temple sealing, even if the woman (ex-wife) is still active in the church?
It's unsettling to me to think that my fiance is still "bound" to his ex, in her mind at least.


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Melanie
Post  Post subject: Re: thinking of leaving  |  Posted: Tue Feb 09, 2016 6:24 pm
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Hi, Welcome!

Best poc reply here as I am not entirely sure.

But the ordinances are all made up anyhow aren't they, so perhaps this is no different a situation to the fact that your fiance and his ex wife do share a past history and there will be memories. You can't account for what someone else thinks and anyhow I know people who still hope what they want to hope above what the ordinances actually may state and this is especially so with divorce.

Anyhow, poc is your man here.

Thank you for posting.

_________________
Why leave? http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=pl ... 989OOSOycw
How to heal? http://media.blubrry.com/mormonexpressi ... ion225.mp3


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Rainfeather
Post  Post subject: Re: thinking of leaving  |  Posted: Tue Feb 09, 2016 6:31 pm
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The LDS Church has no authority or power to bind anyone, so I wouldn't worry about it.

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"A mind stretched by a new idea can never go back to its original dimensions." - Oliver Wendell Holmes


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teoma2
Post  Post subject: Re: thinking of leaving  |  Posted: Wed Feb 10, 2016 7:46 am
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When you think about it Mmmandm, Rainfeather is correct.

The only authority they have over anyone, including you or your boyfriend, is what you are willing to give to them.

_________________
"When authority masquerades as a power, a simple question will unmask it."

"Just because you think, feel, or believe something is true, doesn't make it true!"

"The doubt of your faith, is not God testing you, but truth trying to emerge and free you."


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productofchoice
Post  Post subject: Re: thinking of leaving  |  Posted: Thu Feb 11, 2016 10:56 pm
God

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mmandm wrote:
This may be obvious, but am I reading this correctly that when a divorced man submits papers to remove his name from the LDS church, the removal of his name breaks all his dealings with the church including his temple sealing, even if the woman (ex-wife) is still active in the church?
It's unsettling to me to think that my fiance is still "bound" to his ex, in her mind at least.


Does removing name break sealings? Yes to my understanding.
Even if ex is still active? Yes to my understanding.

The sealing has a His, Hers and Theirs parts/blessings. The removal of his name eliminates the His part of it and the Theirs part. The Hers part is not affected.

And as Rain says, it only matters if the LDS priesthood has any power and isn't really a made-up thing. Though even if it is made up, we often give things power by our thoughts. She will be bound to him if she thinks she is bound to him.

Peace

_________________
I resigned from the Church of THE Jesus Christ of the Latter Day Saints (Feb 2011)

"For nothing is secret, that shall not be made manifest; neither any thing hid, that shall not be known and come abroad." - Luke 8:17


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teoma2
Post  Post subject: Re: thinking of leaving  |  Posted: Tue Feb 16, 2016 8:51 am
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And just because you THINK something is true, doesn't make it true!

_________________
"When authority masquerades as a power, a simple question will unmask it."

"Just because you think, feel, or believe something is true, doesn't make it true!"

"The doubt of your faith, is not God testing you, but truth trying to emerge and free you."


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Heath326
Post  Post subject: Re: thinking of leaving  |  Posted: Sat Mar 05, 2016 5:41 am
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http://leavetheldschurch.weebly.com/


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